Personal Perspectives on Vision Loss with Brian Deer
Today I'm talking with Brian Deer, who shares the same condition I have - Stargardt disease. Brian's journey has taken him from the world of manufacturing research and development to becoming a philosophy professor. He went through that frustrating experience many of us know - being told by doctor after doctor that nothing was wrong, only to finally get a diagnosis with no treatment options. From there, he made a complete career pivot: from highly technical engineering work to academia, earning a master's degree in philosophy and now teaching at the college level.
Finding Your Path: A Conversation with Brian Deer About Vision Loss, Career Changes, and Moving Forward
In my latest inSight Out podcast episode, I had the privilege of speaking with Brian Deer, a philosophy professor who shares my diagnosis of Stargardt disease. His story illuminates both the challenges and possibilities that come with progressive vision loss, offering insights that extend far beyond the low vision community.
The Long Road to Diagnosis
Brian's journey began in elementary school when routine eye exams revealed vision problems that couldn't be easily explained. What followed was a frustrating pilgrimage to approximately one hundred doctors over several years—each one unable to find anything wrong and many suggesting he was fabricating his symptoms.
The emotional toll of being repeatedly told you're lying about your own experience is profound, especially for a child. Brian described having an emotional breakdown in one doctor's office after being accused of deception once again. It was only at his final appointment, with Dr. Richard Lewis in Houston, that he received the diagnosis of Stargardt disease through a specialized dye injection test.
The diagnosis brought both relief and disappointment. While validation felt good after years of disbelief, the doctor's honest assessment was stark: there was no treatment, no cure, and nothing would change except now Brian knew what he had.
Early Adaptation Strategies
Brian's story demonstrates the gradual nature of progressive vision loss. For years after his diagnosis, his vision remained functional enough that he didn't need assistive technology or major lifestyle changes. However, he began developing coping strategies that he still uses today—like using two pieces of material butted together for precise measurements in woodworking, rather than relying on visual measurement tools.
High school brought the first real challenges. Headaches from eye strain became common as he struggled with regular textbooks, holding them closer to compensate for his vision loss. The large print textbooks available were embarrassingly huge and impractical. Perhaps more problematic was being grouped with students who had behavioral and cognitive disabilities in the special needs program, where he was treated as if he couldn't understand his own condition or develop solutions.
This experience taught him a crucial lesson that would serve him throughout life: the importance of self-advocacy. As Brian put it, doctors had told him that self-advocacy would be the most important skill he'd develop as a visually impaired person, and they were right.
The Transportation Turning Point
The most significant shift in Brian's experience came at age 24 when he gave up his driver's license. Living in the suburbs and working across town with no viable public transportation options, he faced a new level of dependency and logistical complexity that couldn't be solved through sheer determination.
He described devastating days when unreliable transportation left him stranded or when bus drivers refused to allow his electric scooter on board, forcing him to walk home after exhausting 14-hour days. These experiences highlighted a harsh reality: sometimes the systems designed to help simply fail, and there's no amount of self-advocacy that can fix every situation in the moment.
Academic Reinvention
After working in research and development in the HVAC industry—a highly technical, precise field—Brian made a dramatic career change. Using free college tuition available to legally blind individuals in his state, he pursued a master's degree in philosophy.
This transition required embracing assistive technology he had previously avoided. CCTV devices, audio books, and disability services became essential tools rather than optional accommodations. Brian discovered that slowing down his reading pace with a CCTV actually improved his comprehension—an unexpected benefit of adaptation.
One of his most significant adjustments was learning to attend lectures without taking notes. Unable to read his own handwriting, he developed the skill of focused listening and retention, becoming what he describes as more present in classroom discussions than students who were dividing their attention between writing and listening.
Teaching Philosophy with Vision Loss
Brian's work as a philosophy professor presents both ideal conditions and unique challenges. The conversational nature of philosophical discussion plays to his strengths—concepts and ideas flow naturally through dialogue. However, the extensive reading requirements and the need to grade student papers create ongoing difficulties.
A particularly modern challenge has emerged with AI technology. Brian can't easily use traditional in-class handwritten exams to combat AI-assisted cheating because he cannot read student handwriting even with assistive devices. This puts him in the position of trying to solve a disability-related problem within a larger unsolved puzzle that the entire educational system is grappling with.
Practical Wisdom for Moving Forward
When I asked Brian what advice he'd offer to someone newly diagnosed or facing major life decisions with vision loss, his response was refreshingly direct: "Just do it. If you want to do something, just start the process."
His perspective is that every obstacle will be solved one day at a time, one problem at a time. The mistake many people make is bringing all future problems into the present moment, making the challenge seem impossible. But when you break it down and face each difficulty as it actually arises, the path becomes manageable.
Brian was honest about still having bad days when everything feels futile and overwhelming. The key insight is that these feelings pass, and the work of moving forward continues.
Communicating with Family and Friends
One area Brian admits he's still developing is helping family and friends understand his experience. He's found more success by asking them not to understand his challenges but simply to believe that he's facing real difficulties. Rather than trying to convince someone to grasp the complexity of navigating the world with vision loss, he asks for trust and emotional support.
This shift from seeking understanding to requesting belief has improved his relationships and reduced the isolation that can come with feeling perpetually misunderstood.
Reflections
Brian's story reinforces several themes I encounter regularly in my work with people adjusting to vision loss. The medical system's frequent failure to believe patient experiences. The inadequacy of one-size-fits-all disability services. The crucial importance of self-advocacy. The reality that adaptation is an ongoing process, not a destination.
But perhaps most importantly, Brian's journey from R&D engineer to philosophy professor demonstrates that vision loss doesn't have to limit your aspirations or define your possibilities. Career changes, advanced education, and personal growth remain achievable—they just require different strategies and tools.
For anyone facing their own mountain of challenges, Brian's message is clear: you don't have to climb it all at once. Just take the next step, solve the next problem, and trust that the path will reveal itself as you move forward.
If you'd like to share your own experience with vision loss or suggest topics for future episodes, visit us at speakpipe.com/insightoutpod. You can find all episodes at insightoutpod.com and follow us on social media @insightoutpod.
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ABOUT THE EPISODE
Philosophy professor Brian Deer joins host Matthew Reeves to discuss his journey from engineering to academia while navigating progressive vision loss from Stargardt disease. Brian shares his experience visiting nearly 100 doctors before receiving a diagnosis, the challenges of giving up driving at 24, and the practical adaptations that enabled his career transition. From learning to attend lectures without taking notes to managing the complexities of grading papers in an AI-influenced world, Brian offers candid insights about problem-solving, self-advocacy, and moving forward one obstacle at a time. This conversation explores both the frustrations and possibilities that come with vision loss, emphasizing that major life changes and professional growth remain achievable with different strategies and tools.
Topics covered: Stargardt disease diagnosis, medical gaslighting, transportation challenges, assistive technology, career transitions, academic accommodations, self-advocacy, family communication, and practical advice for facing overwhelming challenges.
ABOUT THE PODCAST
inSight Out is your podcast home for living well with vision loss. Host Matthew Reeves (LPC CRC NCC) is a legally-blind psychotherapist and rehabilitation counselor specializing in helping people thrive while living with disability. Matthew is licensed in Georgia and is a nationally certified rehabilitation counselor.
Please be sure to subscribe to catch every episode. And remember to share the show with others in the blind and low-vision community!
CONNECT WITH US
Podcast Home: https://insightoutpod.com
Talk to Us: https://speakpipe.com/insightoutpod
Email: mailto:insightoutpod@integralmhs.com
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Social Media Handle: @insightoutpod
©Integral Mental Health Services, LLC
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The following transcript is AI generated and likely contains errors.
COLD OPEN
Alex: This is placeholder for generic voiceover.
INTRO
Matthew Reeves: You're listening to Insight Out a podcast about living well with low vision. Maybe you're feeling confused, scared, isolated, or disheartened about a recent vision loss diagnosis, or maybe you've been managing your vision loss for a while and now you want to hear from others about how to continue growing and thriving. Insight Out is your supportive space to find healthy and impactful tools to build and maintain a truly rich and gratifying life with low or no vision.
I'm Matthew Reeves. I'm a legally blind psychotherapist and rehabilitation counselor. I specialize in helping people adjust to disability through my practice, integral Mental Health Services in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm really glad you're listening.
[00:01:00] Please subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and let others in the low vision community know about the podcast so the word can spread to those who might find it helpful. And now on with today's discussion.
TOPIC INTRO
Alex: this is placeholder for generic voiceover.
INTERVIEW
Matthew Reeves: Well, Brian, thanks for joining us today. Uh, I kind of was looking to meet people who have interesting stories of low vision, uh, to feature on the podcast, to let our audience kind of hear those stories and hear how. Especially for people who are newly diagnosed, that life goes on and, and a happy, satisfying life as possible.
And when I heard your story, it was really interesting to me. So I was, I was, uh, thrilled that you accepted the invitation to be here today. Um, why don't we start? thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Um, why don't we start by just, I'll ask you to just kind of give me an overview of your story of vision loss. Um, and, and we'll go from there.[00:02:00]
Brian Deer: Okay. Um, so ever since I was getting eye tests at school, I was not getting a perfect 2020. but the vision was good enough, so we figured leave it alone until about fourth or fifth grade. then it got to the point where they started saying, we should better go to the eye doctor and went to about a hundred doctors, all of whom, you know, either said I was lying asked if I had a friend that had glasses or Did you have a
Matthew Reeves: is.
Brian Deer: that has glasses?
Matthew Reeves: that an exaggeration? A hundred doctors.
Brian Deer: it was about, Wow. That's lot. Yeah. And how old were you at this point?
I was, I cannot remember if it was fourth or fifth grade, um, but around that, around that
Matthew Reeves: Wow, that is a lot of doctors. Okay.
Brian Deer: 11, yeah. And uh, it actually got to the point to where of the doctors said I was lying. And by this point, I knew all the equipment, I knew all the tests they were gonna do.
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: [00:03:00] And so I was
perfectly calm and confident in the doctor's office, and the doctor said I was lying, and I just lost it. I had an emotional breakdown. I flipped out. I left the office. Uh, was crying in the parking lot. My mom came out and she said, you know, we don't have to do anymore. We don't have to go to any more doctors if you don't want to.
And I was like, yeah, we're done. No more. well, we do have one more appointment set up. Do you want me to cancel it or do you want to go to that? We'll just go to that one. that was Dr. Richard Lewis outta Houston, and he was the one that diagnosed me. So I got pretty lucky with when I decided to stop that it wasn't, uh,
Matthew Reeves: At one last doctor visit did the trick and what was it, well, before I even ask, what was it like to get the diagnosis? I. Tell me more if you remember that young, about what it was like to be told over and over again that, that not only did they, they weren't saying, we don't know what's wrong, they were saying, you are wrong.
Brian Deer: Yeah. [00:04:00] Yeah, because they couldn't see anything. I mean, with the equipment that existed at the time and the standard, you know, operating procedure. They're not gonna find early onset star guards, like that's just not gonna happen. So they had zero evidence that there was something wrong with my eyes, and I got around well enough.
I seemed to function just fine. I didn't seem like I was blind, so just assumed that I was, you know, fabricating it for some ulterior motive, which kids do. I mean, they lie all the time to get what they want around that age. So it's not an unreasonable thought, you know, lying about it. I clearly had some problems and so that hurt, man, that,
Matthew Reeves: Yeah. I,
Brian Deer: my
feelings quite a
Matthew Reeves: I, hear that story in my work far too often. Uh, when the medical, when the medical establishment doesn't have an answer, they assume that, well, not everybody, I don't wanna make [00:05:00] blanket statements, but it, it happens frequently that when they don't have an answer, they assume that the patient is.
The thing that's wrong.
Uh, and, and when that's a child receiving that message, I think that can do a huge amount of harm. And I'll pause for a second and mention to our audience that I, uh, you and I both have the same condition. Stargardt disease, which is relatively common in the inherited retinal degeneration world. Uh, it's certainly not the only, uh, uh, condition, but it is common for Stargardt's, uh, to not have any.
Characteristics that can be seen by a doctor objectively in, in its early stages. So I think that's why it's more common in our, you know, for people dealing with stargardt than maybe for other conditions. Um, but yeah. So you finally got the diagnosis, uh, with your, with the one last doctor one, the one last ditch effort.
Um, and what was that like
Brian Deer: I let down,
Matthew Reeves: a let down.[00:06:00]
Brian Deer: I had to go through this whole diagnosis where they injected a dye in me that they had to tell me like I could die from it, potentially
Matthew Reeves: goodness.
Brian Deer: an allergic reaction. And
he, he, you know, I had to wait a couple hours for the dye to flow through and then got the special light out and they looked at the back of the eye and he goes, yeah, yeah, you have, you have Stargardt.
I'm like, oh my God. Okay, thank, okay, great. Now what? What do we do? And he goes, oh, nothing. That's, you just know at this point. But no, nothing changes. Like we, we don't have a cure for it. There's no treatment for it or anything like that. You know, you have it 10 to 15 years, there'll be a treatment for it and a cure for it.
But than that, no.
Matthew Reeves: So, then, so you went from, uh. From, from struggling with your vision and being told nothing's wrong, to struggling with your vision, to then being told, yes, there is something wrong, but there's absolutely nothing anybody can do about it.
Brian Deer: Nothing we can do about it.
Yeah. Not a,
Matthew Reeves: yeah. Wow. I.
Brian Deer: but at least he was honest [00:07:00] about it. I mean, he, he, he was a straight shooter and I, I definitely appreciated that, uh, about that Dr. Richard Lewis. He didn't. Figure code it. He was like, no, there's nothing that can be done. And it's not a big deal. are a lot of people that have low vision out there that are visually impaired and they can do a lot of stuff in life.
He is like, you're never gonna be a fighter pilot. You're never gonna be a brain surgeon or a cab driver. But that's about it. there's still plenty of options out there. so,
Matthew Reeves: Looking back, do you, do you believe that was an approach that was helpful to you to be told? Eh, just, just chill. It's not that big a deal. Do you do,
Brian Deer: For me. Yeah,
Matthew Reeves: That was the right approach for you.
Brian Deer: for me, it definitely isn't the right one for everybody, but I don't really want the sugar coating.
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: I want to know the cold,
hard facts and to be able to deal with it head on. Um. The thing that was problematic is there wasn't anything to deal with. Like I was, [00:08:00] I was like, okay, cool. Now I have the diagnosis.
Now I'm ready. Let's, fight this thing. Let's figure it out. And they're like, oh, no, no. That's a very long and slow process that happens over years and years and years of altering minor behaviors. As get more difficult for you, like at one point you're just gonna not read a book anymore.
You're gonna have to switch over to something else, but it's gonna be. the, you know, and, um, so that slow progression was something that I wasn't expecting. but I've been pretty good at, know, dealing
Matthew Reeves: It almost sounds like you were, you had that energy of youth of just wanting to attack the problem and you were like a, a, you were pressing your accelerator with your emergency brake on. There was no place to go. Yeah.
Brian Deer: Absolutely. Yeah. There was no place to go. And also my vision wasn't bad enough. To need any of the assisted technologies or anything. So it was like I didn't need to go get A-C-C-T-V. I didn't need software for the [00:09:00] computer. I didn't need to start doing audio books. So there was nothing, there was literally nothing changed from the day before I went to that doctor's office to the day after, other than I knew what the diagnosis was.
Matthew Reeves: And that diagnosis is, uh. Condition that is progressive. So you're being told, you know, you are here today and one day things will be worse, and you're what, 11 years old or so? Something in that, something in that area. Yeah. What was it like for you early in the process with no significant issues at the time, but knowing that this dark cloud was looming over you?
Brian Deer: It didn't really hit me until I started dating when I was a young teenager, and I, you know, you start fantasizing about the future and everything. Oh, if I get married to this girl and what's gonna happen then? And then I started thinking about if I have kids. [00:10:00] And I remember specifically this one fear of my wife being out of town and my kids being at a sleepover, I wouldn't be able to go get them they needed to come home for some reason, if there was an emergency and that, that messed me up. Um, it was completely irrational and all of that, but um, but that was where I was at. That was the fear that I had at that moment.
Matthew Reeves: You were looking ahead to a entirely different stage of life and entirely, almost an entirely different identity, and, and, and really fearful of what that would mean.
Brian Deer: yeah, What was the, yeah.
it is, it's, there's no better example of worrying is, you know, spending time on a problem that doesn't exist yet. That was
Matthew Reeves: tomorrow's problem be today's problem. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Deer: Yeah. when, when did it start? When did today's problem start becoming today's problem? When did it hit you that, that you were actually having some symptoms that you needed to, [00:11:00] to adapt to or manage?
high school I had headaches and I didn't really understand where they were coming from at that point in time. Later on I kind of understood that, oh, it was because of the eye strain that I was dealing with. Because while I did have some large print textbooks, which was horribly embarrassing
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: around two
foot by three foot set of volumes of books, um, that wouldn't fit in a locker or anything like that. Um, so I've mainly used the normal textbook and just held it closer and dealt with a lot of headaches. Um. One of the other interesting things is because I was visually impaired, I was in the special needs program, so for standardized testing, I went to a different room and that was somewhere where I definitely did not belong. Um, 'cause a lot of the other students in there had serious behavioral issues. Um, so it was not a better environment [00:12:00] to take a test
Matthew Reeves: Right.
Brian Deer: at all. I would've much rather
been made fun of by the 30 students in the class than have to deal with. Desk being thrown
Matthew Reeves: And it, it is, you are in a system that was taking everybody who had any difference whatsoever in lumping them all together in one category.
Brian Deer: Oh yeah. And oh my God, I didn't even think about this. This. Now one of the biggest problems with that is that they paint with a broad brush. And so even I'm visually impaired, I am, have no. Impairments with my brain, with my mind at all. But I was treated as though I was incapable of understanding
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: my own problem and coming
up with potential solutions for the problems that I was facing to all of the solutions that they were handing down to me.
Were forth. No, This is what we do. This is how we fix this problem. know it works because I had a, a student who was visually impaired [00:13:00] before. And I'm like, yeah, but everybody's blindness is different. Um, and they just didn't have awareness of that.
Matthew Reeves: Were you, I mean, you were still pretty young. Was did, did you even feel like you could kind of. Push back against those stereotypes and those, those preconceived notions.
Brian Deer: yes. Because some of the doctors that I talked to early on in the process told me. Um, that the most important skill that I was going to have to develop as a visually impaired person was, um, to be a self-advocate. And that there were gonna be a lot of people who thought they knew didn't. And that if I didn't speak up for myself, that essentially that was gonna be on me, that I was gonna get worse treatment. Um, and. I had to take that responsibility 'cause nobody else was gonna understand what was going on. even my parents or family.
Matthew Reeves: Looking back all [00:14:00] this, all this time later, do you feel like that advice was true? Beyond mobility, beyond technology, beyond communication, it's self-advocacy.
Brian Deer: for so much else in life, you,
Matthew Reeves: That's.
Brian Deer: I mean it is, was some of
the best advice ever and I, I. I was a little bit lucky because I was in a situation where I was like, oh, the doctors deal with people with disabilities. They know what they're talking about. if I got that advice from a family member or relative, so like, or a friend, I would've been like, ah, whatever, and just thrown that advice out the window.
So I was able to take that and use it elsewhere in life as well.
Matthew Reeves: That's great. Um, it,
Brian Deer: that,
Matthew Reeves: sounds like you got a lot of support at post diagnosis. A lot of good advice.
Brian Deer: in the beginning. Then it was not great for a lot.
Matthew Reeves: Wow. So what's the next chapter of the story sound like?
Brian Deer: Um, at that point I went off to college, um, and I just [00:15:00] kind of, you know, knuckled it through all of my undergraduate program. I the books even closer.
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: Um, at some point I
had to get some PRIs prismatic glasses to where would, know, there's like standard readers, but they were angled in slightly to help deal with holding the material closer.
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: it just hurt.
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: a lot. It was just in a
lot of pain. Um, I didn't do audio books, but I mean, audible didn't exist at that point. Audio books were basically only available through. Certain state programs.
Matthew Reeves: The National Library Service. Yeah.
Brian Deer: Yeah.
And you would have to mail stuff off and they'd mail you tapes and this giant tape player, and it just wasn't very useful, especially for material that I needed to be reading for college. Like they're not gonna have [00:16:00] an international policy book that was released a year on audiobook. You know, it's just not how that system
Matthew Reeves: Right, right.
Brian Deer: So it. It was pretty difficult to get through. Um, but I did that. And then, um, I worked for a couple years in research and development and I found so many little workarounds, uh,
Matthew Reeves: what?
Brian Deer: with
Matthew Reeves: Like what? What did you discover?
Brian Deer: like, so whenever I was doing research and development, I had to do measurements a lot.
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: And I still use this
Matthew Reeves: I.
Brian Deer: now that I do
woodworking today,
and that's instead of using it. Measure is to just use two pieces of material and but them up and then clamp them together to where they are, the exact length, regardless of exactly how long it is. how long it needs to be, you know, the other piece that you're making. Um, and yeah, I don't know. It's difficult to think of the shortcuts [00:17:00] because I no longer think of them as shortcuts. That's just the way that I do
Matthew Reeves: memory.
Brian Deer: Yeah.
So it's when I'm around others they're like, oh, that's strange that you do. I'm like, is it, doesn't everybody do this that way? Like how you not One of the good examples is with my keys, like I can't look at my keys. It's just a big jumble
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: I can feel and know exactly
which key is which. I know exactly where it is on the key chain, though I have no problem finding the right key. Everybody else is blown away by, they're like, man, that's crazy.
You can find your keys through all of that mess. To me, that's just perfectly
Matthew Reeves: Right. It's just the way you, you see keys is with your fingers.
Yeah. Yeah.
Brian Deer: Yeah.
That's how you look at
'em is
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: Um, and
there's many more of those, but I, again, I have a hard time thinking of them 'cause that's just how I live.
Matthew Reeves: Did you when you were in, in college? Uh, I mean [00:18:00] perhaps even more so than, uh, high school because the symptoms were starting to get worse, I presume. Um. Did you find the environment was willing to adapt to you or were you at the time, uh, adapting, doing all the adapting to the environment?
Brian Deer: I was doing the majority of the adapting. There were some things that I just couldn't do, I would talk to my professors about that one-on-one. Um, because the
Matthew Reeves: I.
Brian Deer: of Disability Services
didn't. It didn't really work that well for me.
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: Um, and so
rather than being a self-advocate and demanding change from the Office of Disability Services, I was a self-advocate and I decided to just ask for help from my professors and say, Hey, is the thing I'm not gonna be able to do. Scantrons are extremely difficult for me because everything is so close together. sometimes feel in the wrong bubble. Can I just. [00:19:00] Circle it on the test and they're like, yeah, sure. One person that's gonna do that, no big deal. I'll, I'll just grade it by hand. Um, now the Office of Disability Services at University is much better than they used to be. Um, so I'm assuming that a lot of younger people don't have to deal with those kinds of problems anymore, at least not to the same extent
Matthew Reeves: So, yeah, I, and that's a, that's a theme that I, that I hear a lot is that the, whether it's the medical institutions or the academic institutions or the vocational rehabilitation institutions like these, these systems that are set up to help advocate and help solve problems and help, um, pave. Smoother paths for people with disabilities and, and low vision and blindness specifically, that they frequently don't meet the specific need of the person they're trying to serve despite their best in, uh, interest and attempts.
It's usually a resourcing, usually a [00:20:00] resourcing problem. So it sounds like that self-advocacy really came into place, into play again, even when working with people that are there that supposedly are trying to be, uh, an advocate with you.
Brian Deer: And it still does now.
Matthew Reeves: How so?
Brian Deer: Oh. Um, so there are a lot of things that, so in my job I, with the a DA, there are a lot of things that I could have done for me that I don't, I. uh, because I don't want to be perceived as being that different because whenever I meet somebody for the first time, they wouldn't know that I'm blind unless we're having a very intimate, deep conversation day one. because I can make eye contact fairly well. And there are some debates in the, in the visually impaired community about that as to like, should we adjust our behavior for them or should they adjust their behavior for us? [00:21:00] on the side that I'm going to adjust my behavior to make our interactions as normal and average as possible. Um, and then when they need to know that I'm blind, I'll tell 'em at that point. But up until then, I just want to be a person, not a blind person. And usually by the time they have to know that I'm blind, they're like, oh, no way. I had no idea. But that rapport has already been set. So it, it stabilizes the expectations and treatment.
I don't wanna be treated any differently and that's how I want to be treated is perfectly normal. But if anybody else wants, you know, to be treated differently, that by all means,
Matthew Reeves: Yeah, it's, I think it's a, it's such,
Brian Deer: impairment however you want.
Matthew Reeves: it's such a personal journey and it changes over time. I've noticed. It certainly has for me. Um, I've talked about that before on the podcast, but how it's, it that, [00:22:00] how we disclose an an otherwise invisible disability is a. Is a process, and it's different for everybody.
And it's not always the same for any one person, and it's not always the same in every situation. So it, there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of freedom and flexibility in how we manage that. And there's no right or wrong answer. Uh, so you. Went through college largely by white, you said white knuckling it and just, and kind of, kind of just creating a, a hole in the wall as you bear barrel through.
Um, and you made it, you graduated. And what then, um, I remember we were talking before that you, you went into industry and research and development and that, that is, that sounds like a highly visual kind of task and, and job to be doing.
Brian Deer: There are parts of it that were very visually demanding that I don't think I would be able to do at this point without some
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: [00:23:00] creative assistive technology
devices that I would have to fabricate. Um, but I could still see decently enough to do it. Um, you know, most of the, you can always just take a photo.
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: If you needed to measure something
precisely, just put the measurement device up to it and take a photo, and then you can zoom in on the photo however far you need to go. but yeah, it was all by feel. I mean, I, I worked in the HVAC industry I started off doing sound testing, um, and then quickly moved over into life safety product testing.
So
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: and fire, smoke, dampers.
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: giant wind tunnel that you put a
damper at the end of, and you turn the air on and you close it, uh, with heat and see if it breaks. And if it breaks, you figure out why, what went wrong? How can we improve this product? How can we make the manufacturing of it more efficient? Um, so it was just building stuff. And [00:24:00] that's, that's something that's intellectual. I mean, yeah, there is a physical thing that is in front of you, how it's built, knowing what it's made out of. That's all in your head. And so you can adjust all that stuff in your mind. You don't have to, you know, see exactly what's going on, if you know what's going on,
Matthew Reeves: Right.
Brian Deer: if that makes
Matthew Reeves: It does. It does. It's, and it sounds like you really leaned into the parts of the job that required the least amount of vision. It, it sounds like I could be getting that wrong, but it sounds like you're, you're, you really, you played to your strengths and you adapted around your weaknesses.
Brian Deer: Yeah. Yeah. it was all processes. I mean, the process was set up by underwriters, laboratories, and
Matthew Reeves: Mm
Brian Deer: agencies out there, and this is how you do the
testing and this is the, you know, the structure that it happens. I'm like, cool, I can deal with that. I can understand a process, I can understand how things work, and we [00:25:00] get it all going, and then it just takes a little bit of practice and then all of a sudden everything was running smooth.
Matthew Reeves: Did you in that pri in that time period of, you know. College and and early career. Were there this, during this process of kind of constantly white knuckling and constantly finding solutions to problems that other people weren't dealing with, what was that like for you in terms of energy and emotion? Or was it sort of just, uh, go with the flow easy or, or were there challenges to that?
Brian Deer: It. Easy until 24. 'cause that's when I gave up my driver's license
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: and that's when a whole new set of problems
came on
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: that I couldn't force my way
Matthew Reeves: What was it about giving up the driver's license that, that for you was, was the kind of the game changer?
Brian Deer: well, I lived in the suburbs of a major city [00:26:00] and I worked on the opposite side of it.
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: There was no public transportation that was
gonna get me from over there to over there. So I had to find rides with people that I worked with that lived somewhat nearby. But if their schedule was a little bit different than mine, that was problematic. Um, up getting a ride from a family member for a while, but that was a burden. And so I ended up having to move and I was like, well, I'm not gonna move to that part of town because I worked in manufacturing. It wasn't a particularly nice part of town. I didn't wanna live over there. It was kind of dangerous and there was nothing to do.
I was, a young man was in my twenties. I wanted to go out and have
Matthew Reeves: Right,
Brian Deer: to downtown
oh, the public transit goes up there, it'll be no big deal. And it wasn't, it just was two and a half hours to three and a half hours each
Matthew Reeves: right. Oh goodness.
Brian Deer: way too long of a commute. Um, [00:27:00]
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: so I ended up having to
go to the city and they had the a metro lift, which was a service where you could request a ride, at least 24 hours in advance. And you could either be dropped off at a particular time or picked up at a particular time. And since I had to be at work, I wanted to be dropped off at 8:00 AM at work that. Meant that I still had to be ready to leave by 5:00 AM maybe, you know, they might be there at 5:00 AM to pick me up, or it might be eight 30 or uh, seven 30 to get there by eight. Uh, but it's still, that made things much, much easier. Uh
Matthew Reeves: You know that. Resource, which I'm grateful exists. I've used it too. Um, and I've had the exact same experience. You could be incredibly late or you have to get up incredibly early and sometimes both. Um, but, but you, you brought that up, [00:28:00] um, as an example of the, the emotional or the, the, maybe even the psychological impact of.
Losing that transportation. I, I'd love to hear more about that part of the experience.
Brian Deer: It was. It was pretty brutal because as anybody knows, transportation to work doesn't always go as you plan every
Matthew Reeves: Right. I.
Brian Deer: And
some of
those days, know, when I left the house at 5:00 AM um, getting home around 7:30 PM and then one of the bus drivers wouldn't let me take. I had a little electric scooter that I used to ride one of the very early ones.
It couldn't even go up a ramp, but on flat surfaces, it was fine. Wouldn't let me bring it on the bus.
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: It's a scooter, it's an electric, why
can't I bring it on the bus? So I had to walk home, [00:29:00] you know, I had to walk half a mile at the end of this long, long day. And that's just devastating. Like, 'cause there was no option. Had had no option. It was my little electric transport. I can't just leave it 'cause somebody would take it. It's not like a car. You can't just leave it in a parking lot somewhere. And there was nothing I could do. There was no, no level of self-advocacy or brute forcing or anything with going to fix that situation. just had to walk And that, that was a very upsetting day. A lot of tears out on that walk home that day. Um,
Matthew Reeves: It sounds like those years were had, they had something to do with the. Physical exhaustion and maybe the injustice of it, but, but it sounds like there was more to it than that. It was, uh, like [00:30:00] when somebody tells you, Hey, you found, you know, I've got this thing that helps me, and somebody says, Nope, I'm taking that away too.
You can't have that either.
Brian Deer: it was, I mean, it was exhaustion because it was hard work that I did, and that's a long day and I just wanted to get home and then I have to be on the bus. And then this, this person, they could have made a different choice. could have said, I understand and I'll, I will allow that. And I'm, and I'm sorry for, you know, this inconvenience, for this mix up.
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: Uh, but they didn't.
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: That hurt. 'cause it
was, it was a lack of empathy in a moment where I really, really could have used them
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: there. There were a lot of
those days when I was living down there that were like that. And, uh,
Matthew Reeves: Have,
Brian Deer: it was not a great place for me to live, but
I was young and I was in my early twenties.
I wanted to be in the action I wanted to have, but I ended up spending no time doing anything [00:31:00] because I was commuting. All of it.
Matthew Reeves: have you found. I know we're kind of taking this story chronologically, and I'm asking a question about like now, but you know, you're telling the story of a day, a moment when it's, it's like everything's come, feels like it's coming crashing down, and there's that lack of empathy and you really, I, I, I feel, I feel the energy from you, like I, I sense it of like the sense of.
Yeah, everything around me is not working for me. And, and I'm not part of it. Like, the world is fine for all the other people, but for me, I feel completely separated and isolated. Like the systems, the architecture just doesn't fit me. Um, and those days we have to be honest, they don't stop like, like with, as long as, as long as we have a body that's not like never, most people's bodies, um, those [00:32:00] days do keep.
Coming up. And I wanna ask you, do you find that over time your responses to those bad days has changed? And have you found ways to have one of those days and, and respond to it in any, with any, uh, have you learned anything from them, I guess is my question?
Brian Deer: Yeah, so I've, I've changed my life in such a way to where those obstacles are fewer.
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: I don't, I no longer live in a place
where I'm dependent on the public transit system and somebody can put me in a situation where they can say, no, you can't do
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: That's one big
Matthew Reeves: Right.
Brian Deer: The other big thing is
I've been better at letting it go. It's kinda like, okay, well that's just a per, they're having their own day. don't know what's going on in their life. Having empathy for others in those situations, which I'm not perfect at by at all. There are times I don't do that at
Matthew Reeves: Sure. [00:33:00]
Brian Deer: Um, but when it does
happen, I, I let it wash over me and then I give myself some time with that.
Say, okay, you can do this for a couple hours, you gotta stop. Because if you, if, if you just hold onto it and you don't ever acknowledge it, it just builds up. Then it's just gonna explode. And that still can't happen, um, if you don't realize that you're holding that stuff in. but yeah, if you just, you give yourself time and a place to deal with that emotion, to experience that emotion, and then let it go, and then move forward and hope that the next time. There probably will be a next time. It's just really far off in the future
Matthew Reeves: Right.
Brian Deer: that you're not the one who's wrong
in.
Matthew Reeves: Yeah. Yeah, that's, uh, that's some wisdom that's come from experience is what I'm hearing. [00:34:00] Yeah. So you're in this, uh, world of r and d, highly structured, um, testing environment, very precise. Um, and then what happens? What, what's the next part?
Brian Deer: Yeah. So, I, one of the benefits of being legally blind where I'm at is I get free college tuition. Um, so after giving up my driver's license 24, I had an opportunity to go back to school, on the taxpayer's dime. So I decided to go ahead and do that, and that's when I returned, uh, to get my master's degree. And this time around. I did absolutely use, uh, Office of Disability Services and Assist of Technology there was just no way I could brute forth my way through at that point. Um, I had A-C-C-T-V. I started listening to audio books, [00:35:00] though not that many, 'cause a lot of the stuff that I was listening to was pretty niche.
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: Um, so I still had to do
quite a bit of reading on my own. At that point, they didn't have very good screen readers like they do
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: for that kind of material. Now I
just use Microsoft Edge and just use the built in read aloud
Matthew Reeves: Right.
Brian Deer: And I, that's why I read all my
journal articles and everything. Um, but at that point, I still had to print stuff off and use the CCTV, which in hindsight was helpful.
It slowed me down and made sure that I was reading and understanding the material. It was actually one of those happy coincidences, accidents. Um,
Matthew Reeves: and the program you were in called? Called for a lot of reading.
Brian Deer: oh yeah, yeah. Um, it was a philosophy degree, so it's a substantial amount of reading.
Matthew Reeves: you went from a, from a highly precise engineering field to perhaps the most abstract type of, uh, [00:36:00] academia possible.
a big shift.
Brian Deer: that read more are English majors maybe, but yeah, it's.
Matthew Reeves: Is there, is there any, is there any intersection between, uh, your, your story of vision loss and your selection of philosophy as a career change? I'm curious Or was that just purely, uh, an interest of yours that had nothing to do with the vision?
Brian Deer: That's just an interest I've had since I was a kid. Um, I've always liked those deep and introspective conversations and I always loved the classroom. And I always thought I could do it better than most teachers. I was like, ah, I'm just gonna go for that. I'm just gonna go be a professor. And, um, and I actually try to do better than most teachers.
It's harder than I thought it was, but I'm still pretty good at it. but you know, it's, uh, yeah, that was just a, an interest that I had that
Matthew Reeves: Was there any,
Brian Deer: couldn't,
Matthew Reeves: any apprehension about the amount of reading that, that, that program [00:37:00] would call for? Or did you just say like, I white knuckled, I white knuckled it before, and there's more tools now than there used to be, so I'm just gonna figure it out.
Brian Deer: I went there with a hundred percent confidence that there was gonna be no problems whatsoever, and I was wrong. There were problems I, you know, I'd already committed at that point. So you just buckled down and do the work and use the assistance that you have and just
Matthew Reeves: What
Brian Deer: for it all out. I mean, I, I wasn't
working at the time. I was, I was only going to school, so that was very helpful. Uh, had the time
Matthew Reeves: you, it sounds like you, you weren't, you weren't anticipating problems and you found them, which means you were surprised. What was the biggest surprise? What did you not expect?
Brian Deer: I was not able to take notes in class, and even if I did take notes, I mean, I started out trying to take notes and I couldn't read it.
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: Even when I put it under [00:38:00] A-C-C-T-V,
I'm like, well, I can't read my handwriting anymore. 'cause I don't write by hand like that. You always use Sharpie. So I started taking notes really big on, you know, full piece of paper, in landscape. And I'd only get like three lines of notes. there's nothing that you can write that's, some concepts are too complicated to condense into a couple of words on a sheet of paper. it was no longer useful. So I had to learn how to pay attention to lectures without taking any notes, because if I was taking notes, then I wasn't giving a hundred percent to the class I was paying attention to the notes a little bit.
So I was like, okay, well this isn't helpful, so lemme get rid of that. Focus my energy elsewhere. that was one of the biggest things that I learned how to do in grad school was pay attention.
Matthew Reeves: Yeah. I find that interesting [00:39:00] because you found a solution. It was essentially a, a logistical or almost a mechanical problem that you solved, not with technology, not with a tool, but by kind of retraining your brain to process information differently.
Brian Deer: yeah. And you know, being prepared is another thing like, 'cause there were times I wasn't a perfect student where I didn't do the readings and I came to class. It's just lost. There's just like, okay, well I might as well not even be here today because I don't understand what's going on. So that being prepared, I guess, is another lesson that I learned
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: because if I had done the
reading and I was ready to rock and roll, there were no problems with just sitting there and listening. I think I had an advantage over a lot of the students because I wasn't split. My attention wasn't
Matthew Reeves: Right,
Brian Deer: two different
Matthew Reeves: right.
Brian Deer: was only there
to focus on the
conversation. Um. That actually turned out to [00:40:00] be pretty helpful, but that was an, that was something that I did not expect. Uh, but I'm glad I got good at
Matthew Reeves: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a great example of problem solving in a, an, in an unforeseen or an unexpected way. Um, have you found that that skill of, of processing information and paying atten, paying closer attention, et cetera, and like. Retaining it. Has that, uh, served you in other areas as well?
Brian Deer: Yeah, but it's
Matthew Reeves: it's waning.
Brian Deer: Um, yeah, this
skill is waning. Either I'm getting older and I'm just having more difficult time paying attention, or the stakes are lower, so I'm not so, um, nervous about failing a class or something like that. Um. But yeah, no, that, that was extremely helpful and has been. I should probably exercise that a little bit. A little bit more these days.
Matthew Reeves: Again, play to our strengths. Um, so you, you [00:41:00] finished your master's program with a degree in philosophy with the intention of teaching. Um, and I know, I know you are now a professor of Phil of philosophy. Um, what is it like in that job with, with this, with vision impairment?
Brian Deer: It's fantastic because. You don't have to do the reading in the classroom. And it's all about the conversation with the students. And if the students are prepared, it's all about the concepts and the ideas. Everything can be done verbally. I mean, I do write on the board to help students, you know, diagram stuff out, uh, the lion's share of it is done just by talking. So for that, it's amazing. Um, but being visually impaired, impaired and dealing with philosophy is also a massive headache because there's a, an enormous amount of reading that goes on [00:42:00] and an enormous amount of reading students' papers that goes on. And that is a tricky situation, um, especially these days with AI coming into play because, ugh. Papers suddenly got better about four years ago when AI started coming out. And it wasn't because the students got better, it was because they started using ai. And that's a fantastic tool it has a wonderful place in the world. But when you're replacing your thinking the ai, that's a problem for my classroom. The whole job of what we're supposed to be doing in this classroom is thinking through these problems on our own. Not just asking an ai, Hey, what have other people thought about this for the past two and a half thousand years? 'cause it already has the answers. I know it has the answers. I wanna know what the students want.
So that's one of the difficulties is dealing with the student's papers. And I would have [00:43:00] them use the blue books and write in class just by hand. You know, put apart, put aside a couple days throughout the semester, um, for the testing and just have them do it that way. I can't read their handwriting even. Even if I use my CCTV, I can't read their handwriting. So that's a situation where technology harming me, is harming me. Not
Matthew Reeves: Right. It's so you, you don't have access to that Blue Book tool that other professors may have access to, which means you can't account for the AI issue. So you're, it's kind of come.
Brian Deer: Yeah.
Matthew Reeves: snowballing a little bit.
Brian Deer: Yeah,
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: so that's pretty difficult to deal
with, and it's very frustrating because they're hurting themselves and and each other.
Um, the more people that graduate that don't know what they're doing, the the more devalued the degree is gonna become. You know, why would I hire somebody who has a degree when three quarters of people [00:44:00] that get degrees are feeding?
Why don't I just implement my own testing? Versus, you know, looking for a degree. So it, it creates some serious problems for them in the future. And they just don't
Matthew Reeves: As
Brian Deer: it's
Matthew Reeves: an educator, you, you want to address that problem, and, and you haven't, you haven't found that solution yet. That's, that's outstanding. That's not, it's not, it's not
a solved problem.
Brian Deer: I don't think there's going to be a solution and it's because using AI is so easy.
Matthew Reeves: I, I hear that. I, what do you take the same mindset, the the AI problem that all professors are dealing with is one thing I'm wondering about your outlook on. Solving the problem that you've got specifically in your classroom, do you feel like, I mean, you're in the midst right now. You're in the midst of a challenge that you haven't found a solution to that has to do with your vision loss.
What are your, what are your thoughts on how to [00:45:00] grapple with that and what that feels like and what your level of optimism is for solving it?
Brian Deer: Which, oh, it's extremely frustrating. Um, my level of optimism, I'm, I'm split on the optimism. 'cause part of me goes, no, this is a huge problem. It's massive. People are offloading the thinking, part of being a human to a computer, which isn't actually thinking for them. And everything is screwed. Society is over with.
By the time I'm old, the doctors aren't gonna know anything. They're just gonna be conduits for me to talk to an ai. And the AI is the con, you know, they're just the conduit between the AI and me. That's terrifying to me. On the other hand, has done this over and over and over again. So is AI of an entirely different kind of technological booth, or is it just. More of the same, because I, I remember I've read an article about, in a, in a [00:46:00] newspaper about complaining about children reading too many books. They weren't doing any work these days. They're just reading too many books. And the same thing happened when radio
Matthew Reeves: Mm-hmm.
Brian Deer: And then TV and the
internet. And these are all just tools, but it does feel like AI is a tool of a different kind
Matthew Reeves: What's your level of optimism that you can solve your specific classroom problem
and, and, and allow for testing?
Brian Deer: the point where, yeah, if it gets to the point where it can read handwriting and translate
Matthew Reeves: Hmm.
Brian Deer: I can do handwriting to
speech, then the problem is over with because
Matthew Reeves: Yeah.
Brian Deer: just have them do the work in the classroom
and, uh.
Matthew Reeves: Okay.
Brian Deer: You know, leave their phones at the front desk and
so that's, that problem will be solved. Um, but it's a, it's a really tough thing because everybody's dealing with it. All the professors are dealing with this everywhere. It's not just in philosophy, and it's not just people who [00:47:00] are disabled. It is ubiquitous and there is no good. There's not even a good understanding of what we ought to be doing.
If there's debate about should we just allow it as this new tool or not? So until like the whole system is settled, it is really difficult for somebody who's disabled to figure out where they fit in this unsettled system that doesn't even exist yet.
Matthew Reeves: That's, that's a really interesting perspective. So much of this conversation, and a lot of these conversations are. About how people with vision loss or blindness fit into a system. And you're not, I I, I, I appreciate what you're saying there, that you're, you're not trying, in this case, this specific case.
You're not trying to even fit into a system. You're trying to fit into an unsolved puzzle. And that's, that's e that's an order of magnitude even more complicated. Uh, that's, that's a fascinating perspective to have. Yeah. What do you, um, you know. You [00:48:00] have done what I think a lot of people with a new diagnosis might consider to be, if not impossible, extraordinarily difficult.
Going back, getting an advanced degree, becoming a professor of this, of something that really requires a huge amount of, of, because of the reading of, of visual acuity. That's, that's quite a journey and I'm wondering. Um, what you've learned from it, broadly speaking, and what advice you would have or what, maybe not, maybe not even advice just, but just insider perspective that you might have for somebody who is earlier in that journey who is looking at the world in front of them and saying, I don't even know how I can get any job, much less become a professor.
Right.
Brian Deer: Um, just do it. If you want to do so, just start the process. [00:49:00] 'cause the thing is, every single obstacle, gonna solve it. You're gonna overcome it one day at a time, no matter how big that obstacle is. And even, even if you don't overcome it, even if you try to do something and you utterly fail, fine. You, you were moving in a direction. You know, just pick a direction and begin the process, and if you change your mind, change your mind. I mean, I did, I was going to go off and do a PhD program and continue on that path. And then I changed my mind and I said, oh, no, I'm not gonna do that. That's more work And the responsibilities of being a PhD, you know, and the difficulty in that job market.
I was like, no, I'm, I'm good. I'm, I'm where I'm at. changed my mind. Um, but yeah, just begin the process. [00:50:00] That's the hardest part is starting the process. I, I remember specifically a conversation that I had with my mom about deciding to go back to school and she said, because I was worried about my visual impairment, I was worried about a lot of different things. And she said, do it, don't do it. I don't care. Stop talking to me about it. then she, uh, you know, got a little. She insulted me, um, insulted my manhood a little bit, and that's the thing that got me to do it. okay, my mom is telling is, you know, is criticizing me here because I'm not just making a choice and going for it. So I, the next day I was, I had applied.
Matthew Reeves: It sounds like she wasn't criticizing you so much as criticizing the, the paralysis you were you were facing.
Brian Deer: yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's, just, make the choice. Because the thing is, every single problem you're gonna face, [00:51:00] you're gonna face it then, not now. And if you take all the problems that the future has and you bring it to now, of course it's gonna be impossible. But if you spread it out, it's easy. Well, easy is the wrong word. Much easier than it seems, because you're overcoming them one day at a time. One paper at a time. One assignment at a time. One, you know, one problem at a time.
Matthew Reeves: One problem at a time.
Brian Deer: if you break it up, if you break it up,
like that, it's not that difficult to do,
Matthew Reeves: That is, uh,
Brian Deer: you know?
Matthew Reeves: that's some great advice. Thank you for that. Thank you. I think, uh, that, that message is, when you put it that way, it makes sense. And, but in the midst of, you know, looking out at an unwritten future. Uh, it's so easy to just see that huge collection of problems and [00:52:00] feel like, exactly like you said, like this is absolutely a mountain of impossibility.
Um,
Brian Deer: Yeah.
Matthew Reeves: that mountain is made up of just a thousand rocks that that can be, can be broken up and climbed over. Uh, and we can get where it needs to, where we can get where we want to go.
Yeah.
Brian Deer: And I don't believe this all the
time. There are days that I have the bad days. It's horrible. It's never gonna work. Oh God, I can't believe this is how, how much problem, how much difficulty I'm facing. Then the next day, I'm, I'm okay.
Matthew Reeves: Yeah,
Brian Deer: I can deal with this.
Matthew Reeves: and I think that
Brian Deer: So,
Matthew Reeves: a great point. We all have our bad days, uh, and myself included, uh, and I think. If somebody is listening to this and they're having one of those bad days, it's great to hear an optimistic message. It also might be frustrating. It also might be like,
Brian Deer: Oh
Matthew Reeves: really, it may not be the time somebody wants to hear an optimistic message, but, but for the person who, uh, needs to or [00:53:00] wants to, uh.
Have a little hope and have a little optimism sprinkled into their day. Uh, I'm really grateful for, for you doing that sprinkling today. That's really great. Thank you. Um, is there anything else that you wanted to touch on before we wrap up? Anything I've maybe, uh, not asked about?
Brian Deer: What, dealing with relatives and friends and family, that can be, that can be pretty difficult. I'm not good at it yet. Better. But conveying to somebody, when you're having that emotional breakdown, when you're having that problem, that bad day where everything is futile, how do you, how do you convey to somebody who's not visually impaired how you're feeling, where they can understand it? And I think the answer is that they can't understand it. [00:54:00] I guess I've gotten more progress out of it by saying, I'm, not asking you to understand where I'm coming from, just understand that I am a person who's having this kind of a problem, and I can't convey to you like, I'm not gonna, you're not, I'm not gonna be able to do that. Don't, don't expect an understanding. Just believe me that I'm having a problem right now. seems to work a lot better than trying to convey, trying to convince. I do remember getting in an argument with my parents, um, you know, my dad was talking about how, well, it's just a bus system. It's not that difficult. And I was like, okay, how about I take you to downtown, put a blindfold on you, give you 20 bucks and see how long until you make it back to your house? You know? And that wasn't very helpful. I mean, it illustrated a difficulty that I don't think he quite grasped, [00:55:00] but. I think I got a lot farther when I just said, just trust me that it's hurting me. Yeah,
Matthew Reeves: I think it means a lot when people give. The respect of believing that your emotions are real and that you're challenge that, that you're not making up challenges, you're not inventing challenges for the sake of having a challenge that yeah. would rather be doing something else. Um, Oh yeah. yeah. Uh, I like that message of, of you don't, you don't have to understand.
You just have to believe. If you can just give, give me that, then, then we can be, then we can feel connected and I don't have to feel so, so alone in the process. Yeah. Well, thank you for that too. Again, getting better at it. It's all a journey. There is no destination in any of this, so I can appreciate that. Well, Brian, thank you for your time today and thanks for, um, kind of what you've, what you have to [00:56:00] contribute and offer to this community that, that we both care so much about and that we're part of.
I really, I do appreciate it, um, inspired by your story. I think it's so cool that. You picked you, you've done two radically different things and that you took such a, a, a pivot in your career and you did it successfully and you're happy. And I think that's, that's, that's such a, a great, uh, portrait to look at.
So thanks for offering that for us.
Brian Deer: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
RECAP
Alex: This is placeholder for generic voiceover.
OUTRO
Matthew Reeves: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Insight Out. You are the reason this podcast exists and we'd love to hear from you. You can leave us a voice message at speakpipe.com/insightoutpod. That's [00:57:00] speakpipe.com/insightoutpod. There, you can share your thoughts about today's conversation, suggest a topic for a future episode, or tell us about your experience living with vision loss. Again, that's speakpipe.com/insightoutpod.
Insight Out is produced by Integral Mental Health Services, my private practice in Atlanta, Georgia that offers psychotherapy for adults in Georgia and chronic illness and disability counseling nationwide. Visit us at integralmhs.com and you can visit insightoutpod.com to catch up on all the episodes. You can also find us on social media using the handle @insightoutpod. I hope you'll join me for the next episode of Insight Out. Subscribe now in your favorite podcast app to stay connected. Thanks again for listening. [00:58:00]