022 The World of Descriptive Audio with Darla Biccum
Today, I'm sitting down with Darla Biccum, a senior writer and creative lead at Descriptive Video Works, one of the world's leading audio description companies. Darla brings a compelling combination of skills to this work — she's a trained actor, a seasoned live describer, and a deeply thoughtful writer who has shaped the audio description for everything from animated series to gaming, from live events to broadcast and streaming television. In this episode, we pull back the curtain on what audio description is, how it's crafted, and what it means for those of us who rely on it every day for entertainment and information.
Pulling Back the Curtain: What I Learned About Audio Description, Storytelling, and Shared Experience
I have been fascinated by behind-the-scenes processes for most of my life. In my first career, I worked in theater production. I spent years backstage — part of the invisible machinery that makes a performance possible. There is something deeply satisfying about understanding how a thing works, especially a thing that most people simply take for granted. That curiosity never left me, and it is one of the reasons I started inSight Out.
So when I had the opportunity to sit down with Darla Biccum — a senior writer and creative lead at Descriptive Video Works, one of the most respected audio description companies in the world — I was genuinely excited. Audio description is something I rely on every day. It is almost always playing in my home. And yet I had never truly stopped to think about the extraordinary complexity of the work that produces it. This conversation changed that.
Darla came to audio description the way many of us come to the work that defines us: sideways, through a side door we weren't expecting. She's a trained actor who got a call from a pregnant colleague who needed backup for a live description gig on a dance competition show. One conversation later, Darla was learning a skill she hadn't known existed — and the rest, as they say, is a career spanning live events, award shows, animated series, gaming, and beyond. I love that story, not just because it's charming, but because it speaks to something I believe deeply: the most meaningful paths in life are rarely straight ones.
What struck me first in our conversation was how much Darla's approach to audio description mirrors the work of a good therapist. As a psychotherapist, I spend a great deal of time helping people find language for experience — putting words to feelings, sensations, and moments that can be hard to articulate. Darla does something remarkably similar. When she describes the emotion on a character's face, she doesn't say "he is sad." She says his jaw is clenched, his shoulders hunch, his fists are tight — and she lets the viewer draw their own conclusion. She's leaving a trail of clues, not issuing a verdict. I recognized that instinct immediately. It is the same instinct a skilled clinician uses when they reflect back what they observe rather than what they interpret. It respects the autonomy of the person on the other end of the exchange.
Darla talked at length about what she calls her hierarchy of description — the impossible, glorious challenge of deciding what to include when there simply isn't time to include everything. An action sequence with parkour, weapons, multiple levels, and a hundred visual details: she can't capture it all. So she listens. She plays the audio track over and over and identifies the sounds that demand context, the moments that will land wrong without a visual anchor. Then she writes toward those sounds — building not just a visual map, but a complete sensory experience. She described this as thinking about audio description as building the soundtrack of the show, not just annotating the picture. I found that reframe genuinely revelatory.
There is something here that I think is deeply relevant to our community. So much of living with vision loss involves learning to build a complete picture of the world from incomplete information. We become, by necessity, expert listeners. We attend to tone, to texture, to the subtle shifts in ambient sound that tell us something has changed. What Darla described as her professional method is, in many ways, what many of us do instinctively every day. She is learning to see the way we have learned to hear. That felt like a recognition — and recognitions, in my experience, are always worth sitting with.
One of the most moving moments in our conversation came when Darla shared a story about a blind girl describing how she had experienced The Wizard of Oz based on audio description she had heard. The girl's version of the characters wasn't accurate. But it was, Darla said, true. Authentic to the spirit of the story, even if the details were her own. Darla's philosophy emerged from that moment: her goal is not to give you a correct experience. Her goal is to give you her first impression, so you can build your own. "It's not about us having the correct experience together," she said. "It is about us both having a really great experience in the story together."
I keep returning to that. As someone who works professionally with people navigating loss — including vision loss — I think about the grief that can accompany the feeling of being excluded from shared experience. The worry that you are missing something, that the story everyone else is in is somehow different from, or richer than, the one available to you. Darla's work is, in its deepest intention, a refusal of that exclusion. It is an insistence that the story belongs to everyone — and that belonging doesn't require having the same experience, only a genuine one.
We also talked, toward the end of our conversation, about the growing role of AI in audio description. Darla was honest about her own complicated feelings — she is an actor and a writer, and the fear of displacement is real. But she shared a moment that shifted her perspective: a blind person told her that AI-generated description meant they could access any video, independently, on their own terms. And Darla realized she had been looking at the question entirely through her own lens. That kind of intellectual honesty — the willingness to examine your own assumptions and let them be changed by someone else's experience — is something I admire enormously. It is also, I think, a model for all of us as we navigate a world that is changing faster than any of us fully understand.
If you are new to audio description, or frustrated by the gaps in what's available, I hope this conversation gives you some context and some comfort. There are people like Darla — skilled, passionate, and genuinely committed to your experience — working hard on your behalf. There is also a growing community of advocates, companies, and resources working to expand what's possible. You are not navigating this alone.
And if this conversation gave you what it gave me — a new appreciation for the invisible labor that makes access possible, and a reminder that shared story is one of the most fundamentally human things we have — then I think it was worth every minute. I'm grateful to Darla for her generosity, her candor, and her craft. And I'm grateful to you, as always, for listening.
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Have you ever wondered what it takes to craft the audio description track that helps you follow a film, laugh at a visual gag, or feel the tension of a dramatic scene? In this episode of inSight Out, host Matthew Reeves — a legally blind psychotherapist and rehabilitation counselor — sits down with Darla Biccum, senior writer and creative lead at Descriptive Video Works, for a deep and illuminating conversation about the art, craft, and philosophy behind audio description. Whether you're a long-time user of described content or newly exploring what's available to you, this episode is essential listening.
Darla opens the curtain on a process far more nuanced than most listeners imagine. From her roots as a professional actor doing live description for dance competitions to writing scripts for animated series, gaming, expo experiences, and TV, Darla brings a storyteller's instinct to everything she does. She explains how she approaches a new project by watching it fully before writing a single word — connecting to the story the way an audience would — so that her descriptions carry the same emotional truth as the visuals themselves. Her guiding principle: describe what you see in a way that leaves the audience the same trail of clues you had.
Matthew and Darla also dig into the real-world constraints that shape every audio description script: the race against dialogue, the impossibility of capturing everything in a fast-moving action sequence, the challenge of maintaining narrative mystery without cheating the audience, and how genre expertise matters just as much as writing skill. They discuss how Descriptive Video Works' community advisory council — made up of blind and low vision consumers — actively informs and improves their work. And they tackle the growing conversation around AI-generated description with honesty, nuance, and genuine care for both the craft and the community it serves.
For listeners who want to know more about accessing audio description in their daily lives, Darla and Matthew walk through practical tips — from the SAP button on your remote to streaming platform settings, community Facebook groups, and resources like the Audio Description Project. This episode is a celebration of the people making access possible, and an invitation to engage more deeply and more joyfully with the described content available to you.
Topics Covered: audio description, described video, low vision accessibility, blind community, Descriptive Video Works, audio description writing process, live description, video game accessibility, genre-specific description, AI and audio description, community advisory council, how to access audio description, SAP button, streaming accessibility, storytelling and vision loss, emotional description, facial expression description, cognitive load
Contact Darla at creative@dvworks.com.
Descriptive Video Works: https://descriptivevideoworks.com/
Audio Description Project: https://adp.acb.org/
ABOUT THE PODCAST
inSight Out is your podcast home for living well with vision loss. Host Matthew Reeves (LPC CRC NCC) is a legally-blind psychotherapist and rehabilitation counselor specializing in helping people thrive while living with disability. Matthew is licensed in Georgia and is a nationally certified rehabilitation counselor.
Please be sure to subscribe to catch every episode. And remember to share the show with others in the blind and low-vision community!
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©Integral Mental Health Services, LLC
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The following transcript is AI generated and likely contains errors.
022 The World of Descriptive Audio with Darla Biccum
COLD OPEN
[00:00:00]
Darla Biccum: I don't aim to give you an experience where you got everything right. I aim to give you an experience where you walked away with the same first impressions I did. I remember early on in my audio description career, I saw this video it was this blind girl talking about how she experienced Wizard of Oz, and she then described how she envisioned all the characters based on the audio description that she heard. And were her characters, quote unquote, using air quotes, right? No, they weren't. But were they incredible and imaginative and really true to the same spirit of the actual Wizard of Oz? Yeah, they were. And that just kinda made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and go, "Oh yeah, it's not t about us having the, the correct experience together, but it is about us both having a really great experience in the story together."
INTRO
Matthew Reeves: [00:01:00] You're listening to Insight Out a podcast about living well with low vision. Maybe you're feeling confused, scared, isolated, or disheartened about a recent vision loss diagnosis, or maybe you've been managing your vision loss for a while and now you want to hear from others about how to continue growing and thriving. Insight Out is your supportive space to find healthy and impactful tools to build and maintain a truly rich and gratifying life with low or no vision.
I'm Matthew Reeves. I'm a legally blind psychotherapist and rehabilitation counselor. I specialize in helping people adjust to disability through my practice, integral Mental Health Services in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm really glad you're listening.
Please subscribe so you don't miss an episode, and let others in the low vision [00:02:00] community know about the podcast so the word can spread to those who might find it helpful. And now on with today's discussion.
Today I'm sitting down with Darla Bickham, a senior writer and creative lead at Descriptive Video Works, one of the world's leading audio description companies. Darla brings a compelling combination of skills to this work. She's a trained actor, a seasoned live describer, and a deeply thoughtful writer who has shaped the audio description for everything from animated series to gaming, from live events to broadcast and streaming television.
In this episode, we'll pull back the curtain on what audio description is, how it's crafted, and what it means for those of us who rely on it every day for entertainment and information
Matthew Reeves (2): well, Darla, I'm s- very eager to have this conversation with you. Thanks for being here. My whole life I have been interested in pulling the curtain [00:03:00] back on spaces and processes which are not really obvious in our daily lives. I, I just have always been fascinated by that. And so in my first career, I was in production, so I, I worked backstage.
I f- I, I was, I was part of the process of putting on a show, and I always loved that. I was drawn to that for that reason. So, uh, in this space, this is one of those areas where it's kind of an intersection between that passion, uh, and the, the world of low vision and accessibility. So I am s- very, very happy to be having this conversation and learn more about what goes on behind the scenes to make audio description work.
Um, so thanks, thank you so much for being here and, and sharing your, uh, background with us and your experience with us. Can you start by telling us what your role is in the world of audio description?
Darla Biccum: For sure. Uh, thanks for the invitation. I'm really happy to meet you and, uh, participate in any way I can in pulling back the curtain. Um, d- my name is Darla Bickham, and I am a senior [00:04:00] writer and creative lead at Descriptive Video Works. Uh, this is a new position for me. I've been a lead staff writer, uh, for the last, uh, four years, and then, uh, at the beginning of this year in January, uh, we formed a creative department. So myself and Liz Gutman, who was previously with IDC, we are now both senior writers and creative leads. Still doing a lot of the, the same things, uh, the writing work that we do, we're also kind of, uh, taking some time and devoting resources to thinking outside the box, being creative, seeing how we can really strive to improve our mandate of describe everything, and spend some time in spaces that are maybe underlooked, underserved, and, and also just focus on listening to the blind and low vision community at large, out where we're meeting needs and where we're not, where we're falling short.
And [00:05:00] so that's a, that's a bit of a, a, a little spotlight on the new aspect of what, uh, what we're doing beyond, uh, the quality writing we do.
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay. Well, let's, let's start at the beginning, and that is for, for those folks... I think a lot of people probably do have an understanding of what descriptive audio is, or audio description. I'm not sure if the, if one term is better than the other. Um, but for those who may not, uh, I, I have encountered some people who, uh, haven't had the privilege of figuring this out and lear- and having, having experienced this.
Can you give us a broad overview of what descriptive audio is and, and what its role is and what its purpose is?
Darla Biccum: Absolutely. Uh, so I'll just note in Canada, uh, where I'm fr- where I'm located, we say described video, and generally in the States and many other places, audio description. A- a- you know, any and all things to land at the service that we're talking about, and that
Matthew Reeves (2): Right, right
Darla Biccum: is that secondary audio program that supports, um, [00:06:00] movies, documentaries, TV shows, news programs, to fill in the blanks visually speaking, um, working around sound effects, dialogue, and providing descriptions of what's going on to, you know, contribute to the plot line, the understanding, the, the absorption of the material and the telling of the story. we create scripts that are voiced, uh, along with the audio track for whichever program it is, that, uh, and brings the viewer along
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay. Okay. Well, I know it plays a big role in my life. It's alwa- almost always on in my home. Uh, so, and, and I, one of the things that I love about it the most is, uh, descriptions of facial expressions,
uh and to let me know what, like a c- a, a character may deliver a line that is perhaps touching and vulnerable when interpreted one way or angry and aloof when interpreted another way, and it's [00:07:00] not always in the tone.
Sometimes it's in the facial expression. So the audio description really helps me kind of gather that and, and, and, and understand it at that level. So, uh, as a, as a therapist that's kind of the, the, the world I'm, I'm most interested in is the human experience, and the audio description really helps with that
Darla Biccum: Yeah, sarcasm has become, uh, almost its own official language. So there's oftentimes that audio description, uh, without it, there's, there's maybe a nuance missed, certainly visual gags, things like that. There's a lot of layers and,
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah
Darla Biccum: you know, different styles of TV kind of, or movies help, it, it really helps to convey what's truly going on under the dialogue that you hear.
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. Uh, and I have experience with taking in audio description in television and movies, both broadcast and streamed, but I also understand, uh, it's a growing area in the world of gaming. Uh and, and then in live performances, I have... I, I had the privilege of using an audio description for a Broadway show recently.
Uh, unfortunately, the cueing and [00:08:00] the timing was off most of the time, so, but the quality of the narration was excellent. But, but it became like, it, it all... That's one of the things I'm noticing is like, it's, it's hard to execute this well, and if anything falls short, like, the, the whole thing, it's like a house of cards.
So what you do is really challenging, and that's one of the things I wanna get into today. But before we dive into that, can you tell us a little bit more about your company, uh, Descriptive Video Works, as well as, uh, how you ended up in this role? What's your story?
Darla Biccum: So, uh, well, Descriptive Video Works is a fantastic company that's been around for a while, founded by Diane Johnson. And, I mean, to toot our own horn, we're an industry leader, and we, we, uh, work in, I think the last count was 19 different languages internationally. So, uh, we pride ourselves on providing quality service, not, not just providing quali- quality audio description, but [00:09:00] also really being responsive to the community.
And whether it's trying on new ideas or whether it's, you know, making amends for mistakes that are made in shows, all those things are important to us. We're not above criticism, and we really believe in, in this idea of describe everything. Uh, myself, um, I am also an actor, and, uh, be quite honest, I needed a gig to fill in between the gigs. And a friend of mine ha- had worked in audio description for a number of years. She, she worked, uh, I believe, in England as well, and before she lived in Canada. And she was pregnant, and she was working live description for a dance competition show here in Canada, and her due date was right around the finale, so she needs somebody on backup.
So she said, "Hey, c- do you think you could do this? Like, I, it's a really tricky skill, but I think with, you know, your acting skills, your writing skills, I think you could do it." So I was like, [00:10:00] "Okay, what's audio description? I have no idea what you're talking about." So long story short, she trained me how to do it. waited till after the finale, so it was never a never an issue. that's how I came to audio description, was doing live work. So from that introduction to it, I started doing more and more live work. And, uh, uh, y- it was a while before I actually got into writing it. Uh, most of what I did was, was recording live events, whether it was, you know, Olympics or Paralympics, award shows, different things like that.
So, um, I don't know if there is a typical entry into an audio description career, but, um, certainly writing was not the, the first aspect of it that I did. So, and I, I found that my performance background really helped in the live, the, the live work. You know, it's about thinking quick on your feet, and sometimes you're strong and wrong.
You think you [00:11:00] have time to say something, or invariably what happens is you get a fantastic description in, and then the commentator says the exact same thing right
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh, right. You're, so in, in that, in that context, you're both trying to achieve the same result, so you might step on each other. Yeah.
Darla Biccum: But to go back to what you were saying about facial descri facial expressions that's something we really found in feedback on live work is people appreciated that we captured emotion behind everything and that became such a um a tangible foothold when I did start writing I always remembered that notion of people wanna know the heart behind it They wanna know the comedy behind it They wanna know the soul of it that is maybe maybe there's parts of it missing from the visual cues So
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah.
Darla Biccum: I've always kind of
Matthew Reeves (2): I wonder, uh, this is a, I don't know if this is a difficult question to answer or not, but it must, I would think that one of the challenges of describing the emotion on somebody's face is, like, you're trying to [00:12:00] be inside their head. You're tr- and, and that's not something you wanna be wrong about.
You don't wanna ascribe an emotion to somebody that you've never met before. Is that, uh, as a, as an actor, I know, uh, I would imagine that one of your goals is to, you know, get inside a character, but in this case, you're trying to get inside another actual human being who's not playing a role. That must be tricky.
I've never thought about that before for live description
Darla Biccum: Yeah it's it's tricky in the sense that I don't want to ascribe the emotion So often I want to I I wanna have empathy I wanna feel what that person's feeling but also break it down right I don't wanna just say they're sad I wanna say what it is I see about them that makes them sad And that really is so much connected to what I do as an actor because my body is my instrument and if I'm trying to convey something where does that live Does that live in my belly and it makes me nauseous so I curl into myself Or [00:13:00] it enraging and I can't think through it and it tenses my shoulders And so there's so much physicality inside of what I do as an actor and that's what I look for I don't wanna say they're sad and I don't wanna overuse her brow furrows cause I
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh.
Darla Biccum: However
Matthew Reeves (2): a bugaboo of mine. I've noticed that knitted brow is one of the terms that just gets used over and over and over and over again.
Darla Biccum: it because sometimes that's all they're doing But
Matthew Reeves (2): Right.
Darla Biccum: to dive deeper and I do try to really what you know convey what I see that has evoked expression or the emotion in me
Matthew Reeves (2): So you're not ascribing or you're not trying to mind read. What you are trying to do is pick up what they're putting down. You're trying to take what they're offering you and notice it and, and, and draw on it to put it into language instead of a facial expression. That's it. So it's a translation more than a, a guess.
Yeah
Darla Biccum: I'm trying to leave the same trail of clues for a blind or low vision viewer [00:14:00] to to piece together their own feeling about it right I'd rather say that his jaw is clenched and he hunches his shoulders and his fists are tight let you decide that he's mad or anxious or than tell you what it is
Matthew Reeves (2): And that's, I think you, you mentioned a couple times that that mantra of describe everything. Can you talk to me about what your goal as a ... And we've been, so far we've been talk- talking about like live description, which is probably dramatically more challenging uh, 'cause you, it's completely spontaneous.
But in, but most audio description is for, um, broadcast or television or, you know, it's something that's, that's prerecorded and being, and so you have some time to review it, to edit, to write, to perform, to do multiple takes. Like, you get a really good, get a chance to curate what you want to offer your audience specifically.
Can you talk about that process and what your goals are?
Darla Biccum: Sure Um [00:15:00] I I don't do uh narration generally speaking so I I I do live work but I don't generally narrate But certainly from a writer's perspective again I go back to script analysis classes in theater and something that always struck me with you know exploring a play was what are my first impressions about about the story And that to an actor what then do I wanna remember that the audience I want What do I want that audience to receive And I try to do that with d audio description as well I write uh sorry I watch everything before I write it generally speaking and uh I try to clock what are my first impressions of it what are my first reactions to it Then when I'm writing I want to just have those impressions in mind so that it may shape my vocabulary it may shape the verbosity how much I describe Uh and I I [00:16:00] Because my hope is that the end when I'm proofreading my script and going through those things I'm reminded of the same impressions I'm reminded of the same visuals as when I first watched it So to me that that first impression piece is important It's important for how I write Not everyone writes that way and that's fine it doesn't matter For myself though it's about connecting to the story first Uh I I used to not watch things before I wrote them and I found that the process took me took me a lot longer because I was
Matthew Reeves (2): Interesting
Darla Biccum: put things together as I went along then when I just stopped watched it I had more information just viscerally Uh and and that started with The Adventures of Puss in Boots which I wrote for Many Many Moons Love that show
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay
Darla Biccum: um that little swashbuckling cat was a lot of fun to to write for but there were so many [00:17:00] details and and hidden details that I might not see until minute 17 of a 22minute show And now I gotta go back and figure out when did he get that little thing on his belt next to his sword
Matthew Reeves (2): Right. So by wa- so by watching the whole thing first and consuming the s- consuming it as an entire story, it allows you to go back and figure out what's important that you may not have even realized was important the first time you watched it early on in the story. That's great
Darla Biccum: important, sometimes you really have to set th- something up, you know, and that detail might happen at minute four and it might not pay off till minute 17. But It's important to track those details so that you're leaving the same trail of clues for your viewer that you had along the way.
So
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. And that I think is one of the things that, uh, I think is, is at the heart of a lo- I, I, in full disclosure, I, I, I learned about your company by listening to a different podcast called, uh, Hyperfixed, which I really like. [00:18:00] I recommend it, and there's an episode where, uh, they, they worked with, uh, one of your colleagues from, from your company.
Uh, and I learned a lot about this process from her, and it... They, they were profiling a totally blind, uh, consumer who was frustrated at a lot of the, the, the content that did not have audio description, so they were trying to solve that problem, uh, which is a massive problem to solve and a very difficult one to solve for a lot of different reasons.
And I would encourage, uh, the, this audience to go check out the Hyperfixed, uh, episode, because I think it's really interesting, uh, especially if you're frustrated with the lack of content, 'cause there's some things that, uh, that they explain there about copyright and money and whatnot. But anyway, uh, the, the...
What struck me was that the goal is to, and tell me if I'm getting this right, that the, that the goal is to provide for a low vision or a blind viewer [00:19:00] as close to the same experience as a sighted viewer would get. Um, and you're doing that within a whole bunch of different constraints. It's very challenging.
But is, am I right that that is sort of the, the underpinning of, of the purpose of the whole thing? Is that kind of what informs the entire process?
Darla Biccum: Definitely. It, it, it certainly is about building the same experience. I will put a huge caveat on that, in that there's no way we can describe everything, right? Unless we have extended audio description where we stop every 30 seconds and catch you up, and no one wants to do that.
Matthew Reeves (2): Right. Right
Darla Biccum: however, uh, something that's really informed my writing in the last maybe four or five years is thinking about instead of focusing on what people can't see, it's also very helpful to focus on what they can hear. I've started to look at my writing as building the soundtrack of the [00:20:00] show as well as providing the visual cues. So it, it, it really helps in the, the decision-making hierarchy of how, okay, wow, here's a... Action sequence is a very good example of this. You know, if I have a three-minute action sequence, it's got parkour, it's got weapons, it's got multiple levels, it's got buildings and ground level stuff, lot of things going on, and I kn- I know, I know I'm not gonna be able to describe everything. So
Matthew Reeves (2): Right?
Darla Biccum: I will listen to it over and over and over and over again, and I will jot down the things that really stand out to me. It's like, oh, what is that really squishy sound? like, oh, okay, when he punches him, his teeth go flying and there's blood spray and okay, definitely wanna describe that. Check. So
Matthew Reeves (2): I see. So you wanna say this... You're hearing this, but it shouldn't be in [00:21:00] isolation. Let me, let me help you understand what it is y- that, that I know you're hearing. Is that what you're saying?
Darla Biccum: Yeah, absolutely. Well, it,
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay
Darla Biccum: is it, it helps me decide what I'm gonna de- uh, decide what I will describe. I can't do everything. There's no way. There's no- not enough time. So I want to then lean on the, what I hear to help me build the best soundtrack I can, which to me is contributing to the best experience, know? If I heard and saw that gush of blood and had a visceral reaction to it, you better believe I'm gonna do everything in I c- I can with my vocabulary, with my timing, with how I structure the scene, so you get that too. if it means I, I miss the fact that, uh, a ladder fell down or what have you, those are the sacrifices sometimes you have to make.
And for me, listening to the, the s- the soundtrack and the, the heartbeat of the story really [00:22:00] helps drive my decisions and where I'm gonna spend my time describing.
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah, so as a writer, y- you've got a lot of... I'm sorry, go ahead
Darla Biccum: I always think the best audio description is the audio description you don't notice. I don't want it to be about my writing.
I wanna give you just enough. I wanna give you the juicy bits. I wanna give you the tender bits, the scary bits, I don't want it to be about the audio description
Matthew Reeves (2): Right. Uh, I've never thought about how it makes m- from, I like the word you used, the hierarchy, the prioritization of deciding what you're going to include, and I've never thought about how... I think what you're describing is it's, it's more useful to let a blind viewer have insight into what they already have gathered through their ears than it is to offer a little sketch of something that they are [00:23:00] otherwise completely unaware of.
Uh, that, that you're, you're f- you're filling in not just a gap, but their gap, right? They're filling in exactly what they have experienced with their hearing, uh, to make it more powerful. I think that's a, that's a real- I've never considered that. That's fascinating. Uh, is that, is that, uh, sort of something that you picked up on in yourself?
How do you, how do you take these ideas? This is a fairly new industry, fairly young. It's, it's nascent. Uh, how, how do these i- how do ideas like this about how to make this whole process better, um, get... How do these spread from you to other people at your company, to other companies? Like, how does that, how is it maturing?
Darla Biccum: Well, I think, you know, you're, you put creative people in a, in a position to really care about the work. Um, know, details and stories are important to us. The experience for viewers is important to us. I th- I will say, I don't... Uh, this is gonna sound terrible. [00:24:00] I don't aim to give you an experience where you got everything right. I aim to give you an experience where you walked away with the same first impressions I did. I remember early on in my audio description career, I saw this video talking about audio description. It was a blind girl talking about audio description. since tried to find this video, and it's gone, erased somehow permanently from the internet.
But, um, it was a beautiful, it was this blind girl talking about how she experienced Wizard of Oz, and she then described how she envisioned all the characters based on the audio description that she heard. And were her characters, quote unquote, using air quotes, right? No they weren't. But were they incredible and imaginative and really true to the same spirit of the actual Wizard of Oz?
Yeah, they were. And that just kinda made the hair on the back of my neck stand up and go, "Oh yeah, [00:25:00] it's not t about us having the, the correct experience together, but it is about us both having a really great experience in the story together." It's like two
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah
Darla Biccum: piece of art. They're not gonna have the same experience, but they-
Matthew Reeves (2): Right. I like how you use the word true there. Uh, it's, it can be true without being necessarily 100% accurate. Uh, that
Darla Biccum: Yeah, really authentic
Matthew Reeves (2): the truth of it is what you're aiming for, and, and I get that. Like, I can appreciate how if you had all the time in the world, you would go for both. You would want, you would wanna do it.
You would wanna get every aspect of it right, and share the spirit, and like... But you're trying to weave in descriptions that evoke as much as you possibly can into what, one-second gaps sometimes.
Darla Biccum: Yeah
Matthew Reeves (2): and I'd love to hear what some of the challenges are. I mean, as a consumer, I s- I, I hear some of the challenges.
Uh, and it's sometimes, very [00:26:00] occasionally I'll hear, uh, moments where the description will choose to make a sacrifice they don't usually make. Like, s- like having description over dialogue. Uh, but that's very rare. It doesn't happen very often. Can you talk about those constraints?
Darla Biccum: Mm-hmm. Yeah, certainly, you know, writing to avoid dialogue is a killer. n- not force naming characters, you know, not using their name until it's been heard in the, the audio track is
Matthew Reeves (2): okay. So,
Darla Biccum: a great help
Matthew Reeves (2): So until, until the, the broader audience knows the name, I shouldn't know the name either
Darla Biccum: Yeah, I mean, that's, that's something we've always, uh, strived to do within building scripts, and we're actually interested or, you know, whether or not that's changing for consumers. Um, uh, that, that's probably a whole other podcast. But, but things like that, a- again, I, I lean back on what's most important to keep them [00:27:00] along in the story. So if it means... if I, if I go over... if I decide, okay, I'm gonna go over that repeated line when she's just saying, "Harry, Harry, Harry, Harry." If I go... if I decide I'm gonna go over a few of those Harrys so I can explain what the joke is, that's a pretty easy example, always goes back to, you gonna miss something if I don't interject over dialogue? Are you gonna miss something? Sometimes I do just give the plot... give the plot away in the sense of I'll be very ascriptive with my descriptive video 'cause there's no time. have to tell you what this detail is. to go over dialogue. I have to do these things, otherwise you're not gonna know what's happening. So it, again, it, it al- goes back to that hierarchy. You know, sometimes, uh, a good example too is things that are supposed to be a surprise or things that you're not really supposed to [00:28:00] know for sure, that's often really difficult to set up. You know, a dream sequence that you maybe don't know is a dream sequence away. So how can we offer little c- clues, that don't, don't go against what the storytellers were trying to create? And again, me, that's about understanding the story first, understanding where the jump scares are supposed to be, what's supposed to be a mystery, understanding
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah
Darla Biccum: to be... Comedy is so hard these days because there's so much overlapping. There's visual gags going on. There, you know, uh... Recently, a new series I did was Big Mistakes, Dan Levy's new series, um, uh, Rachel Sennott also wrote, and it's hilarious, but there's, there's so much happening. And, you know, there's that rule of three in comedy.
I'm like, "Okay, I see those threes building. Okay, that means I gotta squeeze this in here and [00:29:00] this in here," and then there's the payoff. So understand that understanding comedic structure helps, understanding, you know... Um, I don't like horror movies. I don't wanna write them, and I also don't always understand the conventions of them, right?
So someone who that would be more suited write. So it's a
Matthew Reeves (2): Gotcha. So understanding the art form is, is, I mean, saying it out loud makes it sound obvious, but I don't know that it is obvious if you don't think about it, that it, it makes more sense for somebody who really understands video gaming to do video game description than somebody who understands horror films to do horror film description,
uh
that you can't just go in cold and immediately get it.
You've gotta know the genre in the same way that the audience might know the genre. And you talked about, like, working to maintain the spirit of the creative team that made the project. Do you ever get a chance to work with that creative team, the director, the writer? Like, or are you trying to be on their team without ever getting [00:30:00] a chance to interface with them?
That must be challenging.
Darla Biccum: Yeah
all over the map really. Uh, I've
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay
Darla Biccum: experiences working on indie projects with... A- and being able to go in a back and forth with the director, sometimes the re- writer, the creators of the piece. And that is sometimes tricky because they want to explain a little bit, and I have to show them the difference between describing and explaining.
Like, uh, so, so that... But it's also a challenge I love because I'm so much about the process and the story of that, so I, I love knowing what the, what the character secrets are or what, what the driving force was behind the piece. And then the complete opposite gamut where you're writing a black and white movie from 1941, so no, there's no one I can talk to about that. There
Matthew Reeves (2): You're really isolated
Darla Biccum: But in that case, I'll look on the internet and go, "Okay, what's the lore of this movie? What are the things [00:31:00] that, you know, over time are the things that stand out about... What does everybody talk about when it comes to this movie?" So that might inform how I write. So there's
Matthew Reeves (2): Gotcha.
Darla Biccum: that can be done, whether or not you can actually be involved with the storytellers.
It, it's a, it's a whole... Runs the gamut, for sure
Matthew Reeves (2): Right. Okay. And it, you know, just go, to go back to the, the constraints, the challenges that make this difficult, the timing we talked about, uh, I just wanted to follow back up on that. Is, are, are there any other constraints that, that we may... I, and I ask this question for a reason, because I think as a consumer, um, sometimes when the curtain is not pulled back and we don't know the process, it, we can be frustrated about something as if like, "Well, why didn't they tell me that?"
Well, there are reasons. Like, like, I think it, I think it helps me to kind of be in your shoes a little bit as a consumer, 'cause it, and then, because that prevents [00:32:00] me from being frustrated or confused or whatever, and I don't have to get pulled out of the story. So I, I think this dialogue is actually fundamentally useful as a consumer.
Uh, so I, I'm curious if there are any other constraints that consumers should know about
Darla Biccum: Y- absolutely. I, you know, certainly there are often client restraints, things that I can't s- you know, necessarily discuss, but they have certain ways of wanting us to handle things. Uh, but I will say also for... Here's a, a good example is subtitled foreign dialogue. are more and more, uh, maybe it's always been a thing, and it's certainly not something I've ever tracked before. uh, there are often times where the foreign dialogue is intentionally not subtitled, therefore it is not in the audio description script. And I know people are like, "I don't know what they're saying. I don't know what's going on. Why, I wish I knew. I wish I could understand." And I wish I could just say, "Hey, we don't get it [00:33:00] either."
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. We're all in the same boat, and that's
Darla Biccum: I'm in the same boat. So and I can understand how that's a sudden gap for somebody and it, it seems like an omission. Sometimes though it's not. There's other ti- I just had a, a show recently, I don't remember which one it was, there was sound happening. Now you, you can tell there's a lot happening in the audio,
Matthew Reeves (2): Mm-hmm.
Darla Biccum: but it's a black screen. So I'm not
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh.
Darla Biccum: my job. I am, uh, in the same boat. I don't know what's happening right now 'cause there's no visual
Matthew Reeves (2): Is that a moment where you would s- where you would describe the black screen and let the audience know that? Or do you, you say, "I'm confused too. You should be... But let's all be confused together"? How do you handle that?
Darla Biccum: Uh, yeah, generally I'll say it makes sure that I've set up like cut to black or fade to black so that you know that at some point it was black. Or also just something to let you know, hey, I'm here. There's, there's some, sometimes long sequences go on [00:34:00] in movies, I'm like, there's no room to describe. So I may do something silly like he exits, but it,
Matthew Reeves (2): Just, yeah
Darla Biccum: he exited and more about letting you know we're still here.
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah, y- your audio track is still working. You don't, you do not have a technical problem, yeah.
Darla Biccum: Yeah.
Matthew Reeves (2): Uh, that, yeah, that's interesting. I always find it interesting to see how super mundane things are described, like credits or the logo of the production company or, uh, things of that nature. I, I don't know why, maybe, maybe it's just my odd little brain getting interested in these sorts of things, but, but I always like, it, it, I've always f- I find the process interesting.
Uh, and so I, I'm always trying to imagine what it's like for you to be in a booth in front of a microphone and a monitor watching this thing. Uh, and but I know you, you don't do that, but, but your colleagues do. What, what do, uh, you hear from the describers, the voice talent, uh, about what, what their [00:35:00] experience is like?
Darla Biccum: To be honest, our paths don't overlap a lot. Um, you
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh
Darla Biccum: my, cohort Liz, she does both, uh, uh, she does both narration and the writing. w- but often, you know, with, with the studio environment, I mean, I work 100% remotely, so I'm in my home and my scripts go off to a studio in Vancouver, and they have people in the studio come in and voice it.
And it's a very collaborative
Matthew Reeves (2): Thanks
Darla Biccum: but it ... Or a very collaborative, uh, uh, you know, f- art form, but it's not a collaborative process in the sense that we don't often interface. We have
Matthew Reeves (2): It's more of a pipeline
Darla Biccum: where we've, we've watched the d- the narrator in, in, uh, talk about behind the scenes. We've kind of tagged along, uh, virtually in the studio to, to watch them work. And I've certainly done narration, um, or voice work in the past. But, um, I think the, the really helpful thing for me as a writer is [00:36:00] to listen to the person that's going to narrate my piece,
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh, okay
Darla Biccum: there's certain, there's certain narrators that we do work with who over time I've gotten to know or gotten to hear some of their work, and I'm like, "Oh yeah, Paul is gonna be able to say this fast.
I can write a lot in this space." You know what I mean? 'Cause you just,
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay
Darla Biccum: that, that they're gonna be able to s- to squeeze a lot in here because they're strong, they're- they've got a clever way of, of, of ... You know, and i- it Genres too, whether it's children's things or get a feel for how someone describes
Matthew Reeves (2): How is it, how is the narrator chosen for a given piece? I imagine there's a, that's a big, that's an important selection. There are people who are gonna be right for certain things and wrong for other things. How is that, what's that process like?
Darla Biccum: Always goes back to the story. always, we always start first with what's, what's the feel of the story? Um, you know, oftentimes if it's, say, predominantly male voices, we'll [00:37:00] choose a female voice for the audio description so that it's not confusing. but beyond those kind of technical aspects, are there people who are gonna have the right of voice for this or experience?
Um, but it always goes back to the story. What's needed to really tell this effectively?
Matthew Reeves (2): And in large part not get in the way of it. Uh, I was, um, I'm thinking about a show I've, I just wrapped up recently where I noticed that the describer's voice was actually quite similar to one of the character's voice to the extent that I thought they may have used the same actor. Like, they, that was a creative decision they might have done, and, and I really listened carefully.
I was like, "Nope, it's not the same person. That was not a creative decision." Uh, just, just a- a- it didn't get in my way, but it did pull me out of the story a little bit. I noticed it. Uh, so, you know. Um, but they did a great job. It was an excellent narrator. Um, let's talk about the different [00:38:00] genres. Uh, we've talked mostly about entertainment.
We touched on live. Uh, we mentioned gaming, but are there, are there differences? And, and do you write for multiple, uh, disciplines or multiple platforms? How do- what are the differences? Tell me more about that
Darla Biccum: Yeah, I, I always say yes to the project I haven't done because I like how it stretches my, my writing brain. Um, so I'm always interested in that. I have done some gaming. I have done, Really fascinating project I did was an expo for a live interactive display at an expo where the audience was surrounded by 360-degree screens, and depending on where they stood, that was where the visual, the video experience would start for them. So there was myself and a French writer, and we had to imagine what the room would look like and where people stood and, [00:39:00] and break the video down into segments. Then we had to figure out how to adjust the vocabulary for French and English, because it's not just about translating words, it's... So, know, talk about piecing things together in a really random way, and then something like gaming, TV is more about coming in at the post-production end of things once everything's done. Gaming, you're often in the pre-production side of things, building the, the vision together and implementing those things as they're programming and as they're doing the game development. So, uh, and, and it's sometimes that metaphor of rubbing your stomach and patting your head at the same time. you have to stop and remember what the goal of it is. you know, I remember working on a, a, uh, a game in the early stages, and material I was getting to write was, wasn't fully fleshed [00:40:00] out, but they needed descriptions that were fully fleshed out. So
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh.
Darla Biccum: then it becomes a, an, a, a game of imagination and then a, you know, a, a feedback loop between yourself and the creator to understand what is this meant to look like, what's the, what's gonna be the, the force of this.
So yeah,
Matthew Reeves (2): so you have to describe things you haven't seen. That's
Darla Biccum: Yeah
Matthew Reeves (2): that's a little bit like the, what it's like for the consumer in their daily lives, the low-vision consumer. Wow. Um, what, um, what is it that, you know, you, you've got this experience now, you've been doing this for a while, and you started with a really blank slate.
What I'm, what I'm wondering about, I always love asking this question of people, what, what has surprised you? What did you not expect as you've learned this, this industry?
Darla Biccum: Hmm. Well, it's interesting because when I started out, uh, I worked in such a vacuum. I [00:41:00] worked at my laptop wherever it was situated, and I wrote my scripts, and I sent them off, and that's it. I didn't have, you know, the experience of doing a live play where I get on my feet in front of an audience, I get the applause, we go for drinks after, and everyone tells me how wonderful I am, you know? a very different process. a creative process, but a process where once it left my laptop, I didn't know. So it was, it was when I started getting feedback on my writing that it, it kind of... changed my, my... or it helped me realize the part I was playing within the community. So when you start to hear from people, "Oh, I really enjoyed it because of this or because of that," it helps understand and, and helps me understand, and it helps drive my writing into a, um... You know, I'm always hoping to level up. I'm always [00:42:00] hoping to, to become a better writer. So
Matthew Reeves (2): Right
Darla Biccum: that's been... And, and a couple of years ago, I was in, uh, Cologne, Germany for the Gamescom convention, that was... I'm not a gamer. Well, I've kind of become a co- I'm a cozy gamer now.
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay.
Darla Biccum: But, um, going to this massive, massive gaming convention and not only getting to know different gamers, but getting to know blind gamers and understanding what the world is like for them in terms of n-not just gaming accessibility, but getting to a convention with 350,000
Matthew Reeves (2): Wow
Darla Biccum: people.
So having experiences where I get to meet and, uh, talk with and work with, people in the blind and low vision community, that by far has been the thing that, uh, has changed my focus on the work from working in a vacuum and [00:43:00] hoping people like it to understanding different things like cognitive load and understanding how to participate in a household with audio description if not everyone wants to listen to the audio description. You know, working with our, our advisory council made up of fantastic people from the blind and low vision community that help inform our work and help us understand to always be better,
Matthew Reeves (2): That's something I did wanna ask about 'cause th- the following the principle of nothing for us without us, uh, what, what, how... And I, I saw on your website that the advisory council exists. Can you talk about, um, who, who this group of people is, what their role is, how the feedback happens? What, how does... Tell me more about that.
Darla Biccum: Well, we meet quarterly with the advisory council and, uh, talk about different things. In the last year, since Liz and I have started the, the [00:44:00] creative department, we now run the meetings, and our first focus was to, to put out a, a, a poll and say, "What do you wanna talk about? What do you want us to focus on?
Where do you want us to, to, uh, uh, spend our efforts and our time?" i- in the past in different advisory council meetings, sometimes it's like, talk about credits. What bugs you about credits? What are you, what are you missing about cre-" Things like that. Or maybe it's, uh, you know, a bigger piece of, of the puzzle.
But, you know, working with those people has, ha- It, it makes us better as a team as well, when I talk about our, our lead staff writer team. Just having that team to, um, to j- you know, share conversations with people about it, and really come to an un- an understanding of what does the community want? We've, we've done it a certain way for many years, and we [00:45:00] have our best practices. they still the best practices? So we do spend time in, in talking about different elements and, and things and, and make the work better.
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. What, what kind of feedback has been the most impactful to you? What... How, how has their input shaped the work you're doing in ways that maybe you didn't expect or, or in may- maybe ways that, uh, we may not even be aware of?
Darla Biccum: Um, I think sometime-- I think sometimes as a writer you can get pretty precious about certain things, and then sometimes you talk to a group of people who-- consumers of the service, and they go, "Oh, we don't care about that." I can't, I can't think of a certain-- I can't think of a specific answer on that for you, but I know there's been times where I'm like, "Oh, been, I've been really worried about doing that right, and it's X isn't as important to you as Y." But I think the
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay
Darla Biccum: stands out [00:46:00] overall is sometimes we can have completely disparate answers. So at the end of the day, everybody likes something different, whether you can see it or not, right? That thing is,
Matthew Reeves (2): Sure
Darla Biccum: element is universal. And you know, y- and it, it helps us as a team go, "Okay, not gonna please everybody, and we may have six different opinions on how we should handle this one thing, but what's gonna be our guiding force?
What's-- You know, is it gonna be the story? Is it gonna be the rules?" Stuff like that sort of thing. So
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. You're, you're in a, in such a, uh, well a ch- I don't know if challenging is the right word, but it, it certainly is challenging. But what I'm noticing about hear- hearing this whole conversation is, you know, you started by saying that the, the mantra is describe everything, but also multiple times you've mentioned about how we know we can't describe everything.
You've got a mission that is [00:47:00] fundamentally unachievable, uh, and that, that's that, which is either gonna juice somebody up or become very frustrating, or maybe at times both. Uh,
Darla Biccum: either
Matthew Reeves (2): know how...
Darla Biccum: delusional, I don't know
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. Yeah, ambitious or, yeah. But I, I, I, I think I like to frame it as ambitious. I think it's, uh, it's great to have difficult goals.
Uh, we, we get stretched, and if, if we get to a place where we're like, "Okay, I've met the goal," like, we get really complacent. Uh, so having a-
Darla Biccum: the stars. That's what we're doing
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah, yeah. How can... Let's talk just a little bit of logistics. Um, for somebody listening to this who maybe is new to this world, uh, can you talk some about just, like, how to access audio descriptions?
How to, how to incorporate it into their daily life? What, what are the, what do they need to know?
Darla Biccum: Well, there's, um, uh, quite [00:48:00] technically, if people don't know about their SAP button on their remote control, then they need to. Stands for secondary audio programming, and that's where you're gonna find audio description tracks. are a bit complicated sometimes to find it, but, um, generally all of the streamers will have in their menu or within the video itself the ability to toggle on and off description. So
Matthew Reeves (2): tag onto that. It's often in the same menu as language selection.
Darla Biccum: Yeah.
Matthew Reeves (2): but,
Darla Biccum: And sometimes it's
Matthew Reeves (2): it is findable
Darla Biccum: until you're playing the video. So
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah, and to the best of my knowledge, a lot of the menu systems themselves do not have any sort of text-to-speech or any sort of accessibility. So there, there's a fundamental gap, uh, that when, when, when accessing accessibility is inaccessible, that's a problem. Uh, but that's not your problem, so that's a different conversation.
Uh, but the apps that do this need, [00:49:00] need to be better. Uh, and perhaps they are better in ways I don't know about, 'cause that's not something I struggle with, 'cause usually I've got somebody else running, uh, uh, piloting the remote, which I'm grateful for. So, um,
Darla Biccum: You got that?
Matthew Reeves (2): uh, so s- so SAP, uh, and that... Yeah, what about... And that's, so that's gonna be true for broadcast, um, is the SAP.
Uh, and then streamers, usually it's the app will ha- in the menu, the language settings are somewhere else. Uh, what am I missing? Where, where else do we need to be thinking about?
Darla Biccum: Just I was gonna kind of branch off from the technical and say that, you know, there's a great, um, audio discuss- uh, audio description discussion thread on a group on Facebook where people share a lot of different, um, "Hey, this is described," or, "Hey, does anyone know where this is described?"
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. Yeah
Darla Biccum: of a repository for information that way.
And, uh, we, as Descriptive Video Works, do post regularly in terms of [00:50:00] things that we've worked on that we know are coming out. So there's certainly information there.
Matthew Reeves (2): And I will tack onto that, um, two resources, uh, that I've been made aware of. The first is the Audio Description Project,
Darla Biccum: Mm-hmm.
Matthew Reeves (2): which is a function of, I believe, the American Council for the Blind, if I'm not mistaken. Um, and so I'll put a link to that in the show notes as well as to your company. Um, and then the other one I will, uh, I will separate what I'm about to say from you and your job because this is illicit.
But I don't have anybody to answer to. So, uh, I do know that, and I've got this from the HyperFix podcast, that there are so basically bootlegged audio descriptions on the internet for things that do not have official descriptions. Uh, they are illegal. They are a copyright infringement, so, uh, they are, uh, know that going in.
There's risk there. Uh, and uh, but I [00:51:00] want this audience to know about it, so I'm gonna say it.
Darla Biccum: Well, and also, you
Matthew Reeves (2): I,
Darla Biccum: we're, always very responsive of bugged to say, "Hey, we want this described. Do you know how it can get described?" We may not know, but I tell you, Rhys Lloyd, he's a dog with a bone. He'll go find out for you, so
Matthew Reeves (2): Okay. So, so your company will go knocking on the doors of the studios and the distributors to s-
Darla Biccum: absolutely. Because that's, you know,
Matthew Reeves (2): I love hearing that
Darla Biccum: that's who we're, in the sandbox with is, um, streamers and people who, br- you know, people who distribution and producers. So we can bug 'em, we'll bug 'em
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah, and that makes it legit and, and higher quality. Uh, do you have... Uh, I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna tack this on here at the end as we're getting close to time. Sometimes those people in our lives are trying to describe things for us, and it is hard. It is a skill that has to be de- I think, like, I can't... I, I had somebody describe a [00:52:00] movie to me once that was absolutely frenetic and had the same...
Like, it was, uh... The movie was, um, Everything Everywhere All at Once, and I had two people on the couch next to me trying to describe that movie, which if you've ever, if you've ever seen it, you know how crazy it is, in real time without ever having watched it themselves. Like, absolutely impossible. But under more casual circumstances, what advice do you, would you give to a, a sighted friend or family member who is attempting to describe something for which there is not an audio description track?
Darla Biccum: Hmm. Well, it, it makes me think of when I first started live, the woman training me said, "Think of it as a conversation with someone next to you on the couch." And I always tried to keep that quality e- even when I, even when I write, I, I try not to let it be about my writing, but I try to always go back to that notion of it being [00:53:00] an intimate story that we're sell- telling together,
Matthew Reeves (2): Hmm. Yeah, yeah
Darla Biccum: for someone trying to do that, yeah, it's, it's challenging, and I would say don't try to, don't try to capture everything that comes up, but let sound do the work. And, you know, I, uh, let yourself again be, be connected to the, the feeling in the piece and the story in the piece, and understand what's important to move forward, 'cause you can't talk over all the dialogue. That's, that's gonna go against
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. Yeah. Please don't talk over the dialogue.
Darla Biccum: Thanks so much. Bye for now.
Matthew Reeves (2): That's, that, that's taking, that's taking away something I actually have access to, so that's counterproductive. Yeah.
Darla Biccum: Yeah.
Matthew Reeves (2): wow. Uh any last thought or please go ahead
Darla Biccum: there's this... Sorry. Uh, I w- I was just gonna say as well, there's that sense of, um, filling in the gap w- when there is one. you [00:54:00] know? And I think that's tied into sharing the experience together. If suddenly the person th- has a furrowed brow or is say, uh, you know, uh, seems confused, then, you know, there's, there's information being missed.
So what is it? Is it the name? I mean, there's oftentimes where I lose track of what character is what character, and I need to stop and go back and figure that out or... Anyway, it's, I think it's about sharing the experience
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh, I love that. That's a, a, a nice phrase, uh, to wrap it up. It, it really is about sharing the experience from what you're doing as a writer to the narrator to the, to the author of the screenplay, uh, to the sighted viewer, to the low vision viewer. We're all trying just to connect through story, and that's, that's such a deeply human, primal experience, um, that goes back to the, the earliest parts of [00:55:00] humanity.
So we're just, we're just g- getting better and better at it, and we're still not perfect, and it's, uh... So I'm, I'm really grateful for your role in it
Darla Biccum: we wanna keep those humans centered at the craft of the story, let the computers take over because of
Matthew Reeves (2): Absolutely.
Darla Biccum: about.
Matthew Reeves (2): Oh, you, you did, you actually told me before we started recording, I forgot to touch on this, that speaking of computers, uh, the, this is a world where I think a lot of people are starting to say, "Well, we could do... We could describe more if we use computer-generated speech, if we use AI." What are, what is your take on these, these newer technologies, uh, and, and what, what are your thoughts on that?
Darla Biccum: Well, my, my thoughts are big. My thoughts are big on that as an actor, as a writer, and, and certainly we could do a whole other podcast on that. But the, the short version of it is it's a craft. You know, I really do believe that audio description is a craft, and like any of the, [00:56:00] uh, the artistry and the craftsmanship of entertainment or information, um, media, I-- we run a risk of losing the heart behind the story. Having said that, you know, as someone who can be very, uh, anti-AI, I remember having a conversation with a blind person, and they said, "Oh, yeah, I think AI is great. I can just put up any old video, and I can run AI on it, and then I know, I know what it is. I can see it." And I thought, "Oh, how selfish of me to look at it only through my lens of it's gonna take my job away," when it actually could represent some independence, some autonomy over someone else and their experience with story. So it's, it's a slippery slope, I think. Um, I think AI can be really [00:57:00] beneficial. You know, I'm, I'm working with a, a blind writer, teaching a, a blind person how to write audio description, when I first heard it, I thought, "Huh? What?" But as we've moved through the process, I realized, "Oh, yes, we can do this." And then do I worry that AI will start to become a really part of this process? Yeah. But I think as we move forward with it, for myself anyway, remembering the, the human part of the story is, is most, most important and is the biggest key to, to keeping this as, as something that is in service of something bigger. Um, you won't find any computer server that is as passionate as the people who want to put audio description to story and [00:58:00] make improvements for the community It does a lot of
Matthew Reeves (2): thank you.
Darla Biccum: well though, so
Matthew Reeves (2): Yeah. Well, thank you for that passion. Uh, we, we, I, I, I consider you an advocate and an ally, uh, into our community, so I really am grateful. Uh, thank you so much for, for putting in so much heart into what you do, and for taking the time to be here today. I'm really grateful. Thank you so much
Darla Biccum: again for the invite. It's been a great conversation
RECAP
Matthew Reeves: What struck me most in my conversation was Darla's guiding philosophy. She's not trying to give you the perfect experience. She's trying to give you her first impression of the story so that you can form your own. That idea that authentic beats accurate and that shared experience doesn't have to be an identical one felt important to me, not just as a consumer of audio description, but as a therapist who thinks constantly about how we [00:59:00] process and connect to the world around us.
Darla also reminded me that there are deeply skilled, deeply caring people working behind the scenes to make sure that the low vision community is included in the stories that bind us together as human beings. And perhaps most powerfully, she reminded me that the goal of all of this, the writing, the performance, the technology, is simply to share the experience.
That's it. And isn't that what all of us are after?
OUTRO
Matthew Reeves: Thanks for joining us for this episode of Insight Out. You are the reason this podcast exists and we'd love to hear from you. You can leave us a voice message at speakpipe.com/insightoutpod. That's speakpipe.com/insightoutpod. [01:00:00] There, you can share your thoughts about today's conversation, suggest a topic for a future episode, or tell us about your experience living with vision loss. Again, that's speakpipe.com/insightoutpod.
Insight Out is produced by Integral Mental Health Services, my private practice that offers psychotherapy for adults in Georgia and disability adjustment and chronic illness counseling nationwide. Visit us at integralmhs.com and you can visit insightoutpod.com to catch up on all the episodes and to find links for subscribing in all the major podcast apps. A video version of this podcast is available on YouTube. Search for the channel, using the handle @inSightOutPod. You can also find us on social media using that same handle. I hope you'll join us for the next episode of inSight Out. Subscribe now in your favorite podcast app to stay connected. Thanks again for [01:01:00] listening.